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ChineseMetro Provides Next Train Information
I was hoping to be the first to break this momentous event, but alas that wiley Militant Angeleno beat me to it.
At long last, Metro has implemented train arrival time information to its flashy “new” (actually, they’ve been around for nearly a year now) transit passenger information system (TPIS) displays. The previously previously pretty but shallow (perhaps they were trying to live up to the Los Angeles stereotype?) displays now offer some depth by providing information that is of actual use to riders rather than no-brainer safety notices. The arrival times of the next trains are now displayed under the name of their respective destinations. This simple bit of information, absent for so long for God-only-knows why, is sure to make a lot of MetroRiders very happy. The looks of amazement from the people on the platform at 7th Street Metro Center this morning confirmed that.
So is it all we’ve hoped for and more? Well, for Los Angeles MetroRiders acustomed to nothing, the information is certainly an achievement. But upon closer inspection some flaws are revealed. I spoke to a friend yesterday about the next train information, and he observed that the trains seemed to arrive a minute earlier than the time on the display. The Militant’s findings also come to this conclusion. My personal experience today revealed the same thing, which can only mean that the times displayed are not “live” but simply the scheduled time. While this is a step-up from having to refer to the paper schedule, it doesn’t really use the technology to its fullest extent, and will surely leave people bewildered when the actual train arrival times don’t match the displayed times.
The Militant also noted that, coincidentally, the next train information is displayed in Military Time while the current time is displayed using a 12-hour clock. I couldn’t confirm this since I was on the platform in the morning, but obviously the clocks for a train for civilians should be set to the standard clock that civilians are used to. The Militant also contends that the information is not presented in what is not necessarily the most user-friendly way. He would prefer to see a countdown clock (as in “Next Train in 5 minutes“) rather than a time-based clock. I tend to agree.
One other issue I noticed is that the information for all tracks is presented on all the screens, which leaves things unnecessarily confusing for noobs. If I’m waiting for the Union Station bound train on Track 2, why do I need to see the ETA’s of the North Hollywood and Wilshire/Western bound trains on the other track, and vice versa. Furthermore, as the next train approaches it should be highlighted on the display, which would be especially helpful in solving the classic “is this the North Hollywood or Wilshire/Western train?” conundrum.
Complaints aside, this is a huge step forward for Metro and an invaluable addition for MetroRiders. The previous lack of information in our Metro stations showed a lack of respect for riders, their schedules, and their desire to know when the hell they can expect their ride to come. By providing this information, and thus respect to their customers, Metro has successfully improved their service and will have a much easier time attracting and keeping new riders while retaining the old. Nice job!
More pix after the jump.
Discussion
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Please keep discussions civil: exercise Troll Controll.
This is a good step forward, but a big screen like that could convey so much more information so much more elegantly. They’ve squeezed the most important and useful information into a little box on the side and saved all the space and color for the dreary automated safety announcements.
They could have a visual representation of how far away the next train is. They could use more space and not only show you which trains are coming and in what order but the next few stops for those trains. There’s so many things they could do… What was the point of buying these big full color LCD screens if not to provide a more visually pleasing and useful experience.
This is gonna sound silly, but since people already spend their time designing fantasy maps for the metro system, there might as well be a contest or just a post dedicated to fantasy information screens. Hell, all people would have to do is look at pictures of how other metro systems do it and photoshop up a mock up of that. Maybe at the end we could send them to Metro, who I understand is already working on this stuff, but their baby steps can be more than a little frustrating to anyone who’s used a BART train and seen 1970s technology effortlessly deliver something Metro probably won’t have completed by 2010.
Hahaha, let’s just say the Militant simply knows how to get around. Or at least, be in the right place in the right time. And have his Militant Cam handy at all times. Or all of the above.
As for displaying the correct info for platforms, the Militant agrees, but he has noticed that there are occasions where trains go “British-style” (use the opposite-direction track) for either emergency or maintenance purposes.
Thing is. at 7th Street/Metro Center, shouldn’t the displays also show the Blue Line train departures, and which track to use?
The Militant will give Metro the benefit of a doubt for fixing all these, and the Militant hopes with yours and the Militant’s as well as Streetsblog’s (who will cover this in Monday’s edition) blogs, we can collectively get Metro to tweak the system and give us the information system we want.
I’m really disappointed Metro is taking so long to implement such simple information… as Simon mentioned earlier there are already examples with BART and WMATA with this information on simple electronic displays:
You know, instead of taking so much time to bash Metro on the blogs over this, why don’t you send these excellent observations and suggestions to Metro?
These displays are obviously still a work in progress, and I would think that passenger input could help tweak the usefulness.
Kim,
Let me first state that if folk at Metro are ignorant with respect to the way that SF/Oakland, DC, and New York run their trains, then they need to not only be “bashed” but out of a job. (At least two of the aforementioned cities are photographed above.) Simple as that. Pam O’Connor recently took a considerable amount of time off to go to Australia in January, and Wendy Greuel and Tony V just got back from a week in Israel regarding security and other concerns. Perhaps you can ask them why they cannot bother to go to northen CA to have a gander at how the BART works. In any case, Metro does not do much to listen to strap-hangers’ concerns, and if they are not keeping a close eye on transit blogs, then again I state they need to find work elsewhere.
NYC, which is not photographed above, has a very simple red LED display that is very similar to what I believe is the DC shot (#2, above): a countdown in minutes of the next two arriving trains. I am sure it cost far less to implement that than the ridiculous costs associated with all the giant flat-screens that have, a year later, still not reached anywhere near the potential. (I have photos of the interface cards of the screens, and know a bit about what these things can do; Metro is far from doing much with them.)
Someone above mentioned something about 7th/Metro announcing arrival times as well as which track the Blue Line is arriving for those entering the station on the Red Line. In the late 1990s, there were several sets (of four each) CRT monitors on the large central posts, that announced which track on which the Blue Line was arriving. Upon returning from New York, I noticed they were gone. How much did that brief experiment cost, and why was it taken away, replaced with the flat-screen LCDs and the amenity not re-introduced? The technology exists—MTA did it at one time—and after a couplea times running up a set of stairs only to discover the soon-to-depart Blue Line is on the other, one wonders rather indignantly what the hell is going on at Metro.
Kymberleigh: According operative reports, you serve on the SFV service sector governance council for Metro. Since you have an in with Metro, might you direct us to the proper people? The Militant is sure you would agree it would likewise do no good shouting to a 1-800-COMMUTE operator (someone who’s only trained to use the trip planner that’s accessible on metro.net in the first place) that the new arrival displays are woefully inaccurate.
I got to experience these today and I must say it’s incredibly useful to see the departure time at some stations so you know whether or not you have to rush down the stairs.
Today at Wilshire/Western I entered the station at 5:33 according to the display. I noticed the train wouldn’t be leaving until 5:37. No need to rush my ass down there.
It’s really a great addition.
Does anyone know if Metro plans to install these screens on the other lines (Gold, Blue, and Green), rather than just the red line? It’d be really nice to have these on the Gold Line, where sometimes it seems like it takes forever for a train to arrive. To metro’s credit, they already have arrival screens on the Orange line.
It’s nice to see these are becomming useful.
A simple search on wikipedia and I stumbled upon this:
I know this is the U.S. and the 24-hour notation is not at all common in use but MANY countries around the world use it primarily and most of all, primarily for transit timetables. I’m sure many who ride metro rail are from abroad and are tourists or smart enough to figure it out, especially with the 12-hour clock for reference.
Japan’s JR displays are the best examples I’ve seen. Notice the 24-hour clock. lol.
Isn’t that pretty?
That’s weird…that shouldn’t have happened. Oh well.
Heres the pic.
Geez, images aren’t working for me. I’ll just post the link.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/06/JR_East_information_display_002.JPG/800px-JR_East_information_display_002.JPG
The displays should be more like Berlins. Say what line it is, what station it ends at, and the number of minutes left. Its REALLY simple, and theres no confusion. Since LA has installed actual graphical monitors, they can dress up the presentation with separate info boxes, but the times should get at least half the space.
Germany also uses 24 hour notation, though this may be easier for them since they use it is actually a normal means of communicating time.
Taipei does the countdown to the next train, and blacks out the time frame when the count goes to below a minute (or however much time is reasonable to get to the platform) to say “Wait for Next Train” with the count starting when the train that is in the station is leaving.
Okay, putting my money where my mouth is, here are my half-assed amateur mock-ups for better signage based purely on what I’d like to know when I ride the train.
I’m neither a designer nor a transit expert, so forgive the misused terminology and bad design principles at work.
First up, what I think the screen should look like most of the time:
http://www.squelched.com/dailysquelch/uploads/upcoming-trains.gif
You’ll notice that since these are big, beautiful LCDs the train information is color coded. You’ll also notice that it only lists upcoming trains for the appropriate platform, hence no Union Station up there.
The bar at the bottom would scroll. I’m sure there’s some stupid law or reason why every train system in the country has to scroll pointless messages about safety and not eating food, so there you go, stick it in a CNN style ticker on the bottom instead of all over the center of the screen.
Next up, what I’d like the sign to look like when a train is actually arriving, preferably accompanied by an audio announcement and maybe even flashing lights.
http://www.squelched.com/dailysquelch/uploads/north-hollywood.gif
http://www.squelched.com/dailysquelch/uploads/wilshire-western.gif
Frankly I’m too ignorant to know why BART is obsessed with telling you to BOARD CENTER but hell, might as well copy that. At the bottom it tells you the next three stops.
And finally, a shoddy photoshop of what this all might look like in real life.
http://www.squelched.com/dailysquelch/uploads/integrated-sign.jpg
Frankly, I suspect it wouldn’t look this good in reality as the colors would be more faded and the bad lighting down there would make the white text harder to read, but hey, I just went with the font and text color metro was already using, so blame them for that.
Anyway, let me know what you think. Maybe I’ll try to email it to them, but I suspect they’ve got their own slow-moving plan and are reprogramming the look of those screens every time they add a feature, so I doubt they could just flip a switch on their Windows XP boxes and make their program look like this.
Kymberleigh Richards:
Where/who should I send it to? I have been submitting my question about these displays on several occasions in the Pam chat, but the questions have always been ignored.
Since I’ve already posted the pictures, do you think you could forward them to the proper contact since I would think you have much more knowledge on who within Metro would actually take this into consideration? I’m not trying to bash Metro when I say this, but I do find it somewhat disturbing that Metro spent the money to put in these brand new state of the art displays, only to display warnings such as NO GAS POWERED SCOOTERS, rather than vital information. In my 5 years of riding the Red Line, I’ve never seen a gas powered scooter ever.
Is there a story that the public doesn’t know about as to why the displays show this information? In my opinion, electronic displays should show real time information that changes… otherwise Metro can post a static sign.
A couple other questions I was curious about:
Why did it take almost a year just to put timetable information on the TPIS? Is there a component missing/backordered for real time information so they are putting the schedule up for nowinstead?
Do we even need the TPIS if this is all it’s going to display? After all, the Red Line runs remarkably on time anyways b/c of it’s exclusive ROW and relatively short run time. And frequency is decent enough, with the exception of 20 minute late night headways. Could we have put real time info on the old scrolling LEDs to save money? Might it have saved money by not having to invest in new equipment?
Simon: just read your post/looked at the mock ups and they are beautiful. Since BART only posts BOARD CENTER for trains with 6 cars or less, they just want to make sure people caught waiting at the end of platforms don’t come running to the center after they realized the train stopped 200 feet in front of them.
Garrett- That’s not the time display. It shows you line status, when trains will start running, which parts of the lines are affected, and cause of accident (it says “human accident”- typical). It’s an information board, and judging by the picture it’s in the station concourse. The actual time display is a simple LED thing on the platform- shows the next three trains arriving, their type (express or local, what line), and arrival time.
wuts really annoying is, like u said, they stick to the paper schedule rather than live train times. therefore, when a train arrives 2-3 minutes early which it did while i was at the sunset/vermont station this weekend, the time still shows as if the train has never showed up even though it’s come and gone already. quite idiotic, but yet, when we’re bottom feeding for positives from metro, this is a MONUMENTAL success.
Stephen said:
well then i guess the displays are doing their job. thank god for them and lets not change anything, we must stop the influx of gas powered scooters on our rail system!
and
lolz… pam chats. oh man, thats funny. actually expecting answering a worthwhile question.
also, simon, great mock ups. i think they look great and yah i dont get the “board center” nonsense either but the colors and easy to read/understand layout are key. nice work. we should be expecting about a 30% effort on metro to re-create something like that due out in the summer of 2011.
finally, metro had better get all this stuff worked out cuz once the expo line starts bringing peeps through, 7th/metro is going to be a complete debacle. i know its like 5 years from now but it seems to take that long for metro to figure out its own head from its ass.
Without becoming aggravated at the continued negative comments at Metro, and reminding you all once again that this is still a work in progress, I would suggest that you send suggestions to Matt Raymond, Metro’s Chief Communications Officer.
His mailing address is One Gateway Plaza MS 99-25-3, Los Angeles 90012 and his e-mail is RaymondM@metro.net (Metro’s e-mail system does allow sending graphics and documents as attachments).
I will also point out that I am much more inclined to provide this kind of information when asked politely (as militant angeleno and Stephen did), rather than as the introduction to a “bash Metro” post (as Randall BusTard did).
Kimberleigh: Haha even if Metro offered Bus ‘Tard free rides for life in a personalized plush limo, he would STILL find a way to complain – and blog – about it. That’s just the way he is.
BTW folks Matt Raymond is the man responsible for “the look” of Metro – the standardized typefaces, the humorous ads, etc.
Thanks Kym, I will send an email over. Does he by any chance read this blog? Since I cannot attach graphics, maybe it’s best I attach a link to this thread and he can read the user responses?
Thanks for the email address. I think I’ll send him a polite email with my amateur mock-ups. I completely understand that they’re already working on this stuff, but I fear that the proper design of these signs has taken a backseat because they’ve spent so much time waiting for the technology to be put in place.
There’s an answer to everything. Well, almost everything. But there is an answer to this.
BART has varying car lengths for its trains, depending on the time of day. The longest, I think, is 10 cars, which would take up the length of the platform. The shorter trains, seen on weekends and at night, would stop in the center of the platform length, where the most people tend to congregate. For the people that don’t, “Board Center” would remind them that a shorter train is in service and they should move there so they wouldn’t have to run and/or miss their train. BART is highly automated and it has very short station dwell times.
As to the displays, I really like them, and don’t get why people are kvetching. My one concern is that, because they are based on the paper schedules, that the times will be wrong for the Purple Line after 9pm with our endless service disruptions.
Having said that, Boston tried to implement what you guys are begging for (namely, a countdown until the next train based on signals rather than schedules) and it was the transit equivalent of throwing a live toaster into the bathtub. Wrong lines were announced, wrong trains, wrong times, garbled announcements, and sometimes the announcements were literally gibberish. It was worse than doing nothing at all, because it created rather than alleviated confusion.
Because you can set your watch by the subways here, I don’t think going off of the paper schedules for now is a bad thing. I’m only concerned about the Purple Line schedule changes, which have to end someday…
…right? please? they will end someday, won’t they? make it stop?
Anyhow, once we extend the Purple Line to Santa Monica, the line will probably be so long that it’ll start to lose its perfect scheduling. But by the time that happens, we’ll probably have outlived the life of the current models of signs anyhow.
They would work on the Green Line, since it’s fully grade-separated and also holds to a consistent schedule, but I don’t expect them to see them on the Blue and Gold lines anytime soon.
I really like the displays too, because it has so much potential to outdo what BART and WMATA already do. I also really like Simon’s mock-ups as it really conveys the information clearly, accurately, and efficiently. So hopefully Metro can strike a balance between what they see as the priorities for content and what Simon has drafted.
Do you know if they scrapped the plan completely? When I was in Boston a couple weeks ago, I was unable to see any real time info, but they have implemented automatic stop annunciation on the Green Line trolleys (new Bredas as well as the old LRVs). To point to a similar operation, I think Muni in SF does a great job in sharing real time info not only on their displays, but also accessible with any device that can reach the internet. I think this type of information is especially important for operations such as our Red Line when headways reduce to 20 minutes during late nights.
Agreed… except I have been fortunate in not having to experience the Purple Line delays/shuttles that I have been reading about the past couple months on here.
It’d be great to get a response from Matt Raymond from Metro and see what their perspective is for the content currently up right now, and what their plans are for the future.
Simon, your mock-ups are awesome.
Stephen: Were you on the heavy rail lines, or just the Green Line? I’m speaking specifically of Boston’s Orange and Red Lines, although Boston’s Blue Line was probably slated for it. The announcements are a part of a huge disability settlement being enforced by Greater Boston Legal Services, I doubt they can cease the announcements, even if they are complete garbage. What they should do is fix them, but after nearly 2 years of being there while the announcements were live, they never got any better – in fact, they got worse, in terms of poor speaker quality, and the speakers were newly installed 2 years ago! It makes me wonder if they’re not weather-resistant, as most Orange Line platforms are outdoors and at grade or only slightly below grade, except for the North Station-New England Medical Center stretch, so they can be subjected to blizzard conditions, as can the Red and Blue Lines (what kind of idiot builds an outdoor heavy rail system in New England?). Red Line is above-ground or at-grade outbound from Andrew Square on both branches, and the Blue Line is at-grade north of Maverick Square.
Boston’s Green Line is among the most unreliable transit modes I’ve ever been on, I can’t imagine they’d try to implement such a system on it – if doing it on the Orange and Red lines was like throwing a toaster in the bathtub, then doing it on the green line would be like accidentally removing the coolant from a nuclear power plant. Christ, they can barely keep their trains on the tracks (see also here), let alone do trackside notifications.
Muni’s announcements for the LRT work well, and they do seem to be based on tripping signals, but they of course only operate in the Market subway, and the Market subway is so overcrowded, and the lines are at the mercy of surface traffic, that I guess I don’t expect the same accuracy there that I would expect on an LA line.
Having said that, I’ve been to SF a few times, and I still have no clue precisely where the frack “Mission Bay” is (“Inbound 2-car train, Mission Bay, 3 minutes”). I’m glad that the furthest I’ve ever needed to go is Caltrain at 4th/King. I’ve heard both Embarcadero and Mission Bay announced, but I still have no idea what the audio announcement for the T-Third’s destination is.
MA,
While I bitch about shit, I know what I bitch about. I have been writing about public transit in Los Angeles and Orange County since the early 1990s. As for your juvenile detourn of my name, perhaps you should stop speaking in the third person before you make such a retarded attempt to be clever. Kim comes off as a jerk, and I am not one to be polite when approached in an impolite fashion.
Why is it being rude to be critical of a public agency? The MTA belongs to me, my tax dollars fund it.
Why can’t people have a contrary opinion in Los Angeles without being thought of “bashing” and being “negative” and seriously who is Kim to imply that anyone is rude. Yes sometimes BusTard is abrasive, but no more abrasive than Kim who can’t type anything without insulting someone personally.
Kym you’re totally in bed with the people over at METRO, you obviously are their friends and have some kind of relationship with them which to me makes anything you say suspect.
Browne
browne is the best LA blog type there is. she speaks the truth. hard.
anyway, i was stoked to see these boys go live the other day. they are billions of light years from being perfect, but gosh.. they are such an improvement from what we had previously (nothing whatsoever)
when i was in japan, we had all manner of signage giving us every bit of info we needed. here in LA, we have a nice start. thats good enough for me. for now.
three cheers to ridabilty
BusTard: LOL!
I don’t quite understand how this thread has turned into “let’s talk shit about Kymberleigh.” She’s been posting here for years and is a consistent source of reasoned and accurate info from the perspective of someone who works with Metro rather than someone who is just a transit geek. I have an enormous amount of respect for her. If you’re aware of the kind of work she’s been doing, you’ll know that she’s anything but Metro’s mouthpiece, and any assertions to the contrary are at best ignorant.
Having said that, she doesn’t tolerate stupidity easily, which I can appreciate. Understanding transit means understanding local and state politics, as well as how large governmental agencies get things done.
Which is ironic because Kym is someone who is a Metro official. So there.
Having said that, I am not a fan of Matt Raymond’s wastes of money, such as rebranding the agency to Scala Sans and using that awful DIN (with the awful orange color instead of the color changes for each shakeup) as the schedule font; the redesign of the bus stop signs to provide less useful information less visible to the general public, and producing a 20 MB PDF report every month justifying his job. On the grand scheme of things, this is actually pretty low on my list of Matt Raymond miscues. I do wish that people would stop removing the taped schedules to the wall, though. Sometimes a static schedule is more useful than anything an electronic message board can deliver.
calwatch, I’d love to see Kymberleigh step in to clarify her role, but my understanding is that she works with the SFV’s Governance Council, which isn’t a Metro department, but instead advises Metro on service changes and regional issues. She basically has one food in each world, which is an enormously valuable position to be in.
Taken from Wikipedia, which I don’t tend to rely on as a source, but this conforms to my understanding of how the Governance Councils work, so I’m going to go ahead and quote it to save time and grief:
So there. ;p
Hey Aaron to me this thread seemed like it turned into the lets talk crap about BusTard, but whatever.
My point is I’m sick of people who want to kill any critical conversation of gov’t officials or agencies. You are in love with METRO that’s great, but this blog to me seems to be an objective blog which welcome all sides and to me the “shut up you’re being” negative argument is pretty weak.
Metro could do better, I take Metro everyday. I like some aspects of Metro and I dislike other, I’m a Metro cheerleader to personal associates, but not on forums that could possibly make a difference in aspects of Metro’s service that really suck and could easily not suck.
BusTard has taken Metro as his almost only mode of transport since arriving in LA in the late 80s and early 90s. He has written about public transit for places other than METRO’s press junket.
I think trying to claim your word means more than someone else because the people of certain gov’t agencies gave you a little hat and whistle means nothing.
Fred Camino isn’t old as dirt and I don’t even think he is from LA, but I trust his word if he were to say something over Kym’s any day of the week, simply because he seems to have this little thing called being objective.
Metro can’t be good all of the time. I take Metro from the Westside to downtown, to the Valley to the Eastside, to South LA (and so has BusTard), some lines are really great and some lines in poorer neighborhoods are not and that’s wrong and Metro should be called out on that.
Aside from all that my initial response to the arrival system with clocks was RAD!!! I was really happy, I wasn’t really critical at all. Sort of like how when my friend forced me to see Sex in the City, I thought it would be really horrible, but it was only kind of horrible so when she asked me about it I said, “Hey it was good.” Because it was good for what it was and who it was for…
Browne
[...] Militant Angeleno was on his horse this weekend, beating both Streetsblog and MetroRider to break the news that at long last Metro is providing next train information on the LCD screens [...]
browne, I wasn’t trying to say that someone is “better” than others because they’re with a Governance Council – just that Kymberleigh has always been objective, from what I can see. It’s easy to be armchair analysts, to be honest. I’ve done multiple internships in municipal settings, so I guess I’m more used to how government works.
Having said that, I’ve also been critical of Metro when called for, both for some prior elevator maintenance issues on the Green Line and at Wilshire/Vermont, as well as for these ridiculous, endless Purple Line service outages. Metro seems to be creating the problem it complains about (low Wilshire ridership), when nobody knows where or when the Purple Line runs after 9pm. I thought they were supposed to be over once they did the “signal” work (which, by the way, NYCTA was able to re-build the West Side IRT’s signal system in a matter of weeks after a bum torched the place), but they’re beginning again for some reason that I, as usual, can’t identify. People aren’t going to take the Purple Line at night if they have no clue where or when it comes.
While I hear and agree with Kymberleigh’s statement that we should send Metro our comments, I disagree that there shouldn’t be some outrage here.
Metro undoubtedly paid some contractor an ungodly amount of money to design and build these displays. And now that they’re coming online, it’s apparent that they were designed by a bunch of amateurs. As a programmer and user interface designer, I’m perplexed about why they would use so much screen space for PSAs, while paying so little attention to details like their inconsistent use of “military time”.
In short, the MTA should have been able to get this stuff right prior to rollout, not as change orders initiated by public comment.
Here’s my take, for what it’s worth.
The idea that any Metro “bashing” has taken place is absurd. To me “bashing” implies an unprovoked, unnecessary, and unwarranted attack. If someone is critical of something, and offers up valid reasons for that criticism, whether everyone agrees or not, then that person is not “bashing” but being a critical human being, which is a good thing.
I think every MetroRider is undeniably happy that train arrival times have at long last been provided. Notice that I said “at long last” because not only has this information been absent for the last 15 years, it has also been absent for the past year since the new TPIS displays were installed. Noting this fact is not “bashing”, it is simply stating the truth.
Simon’s post that provoked Kym’s “bashing” response was simply a list of photos of other transit systems around the world that have train arrival displays that he (and many others apparently) feels are better designed and more informative to the rider than Metro’s current attempt. Noting this reality is not “bashing”.
Many Los Angeles MetroRiders are critical for the agency, but not without rhyme or reason! They see examples of neglect, incompetence, or just plain bad decisions and, since Metro is a publicly funded agency and boycotting will do nothing, the best option disenfranchised MetroRiders have is to share their criticisms on a public forum. I know that Kym has engaged in some public Metro “bashing” herself on these forums, being openly critical (if a bit snarky) about Metro’s decision to install unneeded fare gates on the rail system.
The idea that sending our thoughts, observations, and criticisms to Metro is somehow a better alternative to posting them on blogs or forums kind of goes against the whole point of blogs and the power of “citizen journalism”. They both likely have very little effect in the long run, but I’d much rather post a blog critical of Metro’s decision to install fare gates that hundreds, potentially thousands, and if picked up by a mainstream media outlet, maybe millions of people could read rather than sending a critical email or voice mail to Metro that I can hope maybe one person listens to before it disappears into oblivion. Call me a basher, but to me that’s shouting down the rat hole.
As for my personal opinion on the train arrival times on the TPIS displays? I’m going to have to go with the bashers. Now that my initial elation has dissipated, I am a bit disappointed with the way the information has been implemented. As has been noted throughout these comments, it’s not like this is the first time in the world train arrival information has been provided for riders. This is an established part of most transit systems worldwide, meaning there’s plenty of examples of what works and what doesn’t. It’s been a year since the physical monitors actually appeared in stations, which I would assume means they have been in planning for longer than a year. “Work-in-progress” might be a fine excuse if Metro was run by volunteers and amateurs, but the last I checked Metro employees are well compensated transit professionals, and thus should be held to a higher standard.
I’m embarrassed and feel I’ve let readers down when I publish a post filled with spelling and grammatical errors, and I’m not compensated for my work in this blog nor am I anything close to a professional writer. If “work-in-progress” isn’t good enough for me, it certainly shouldn’t be good enough for the transit professionals at Metro.
I take personal offense at Browne (and her boyfriend Randall) claiming I lack objectivity. Anyone who has seen me rant at Metro Board meetings know I cannot be counted on to automatically toe the party line.
However, I am happy to provide clarification of my position, as requested.
I am a member of the Metro San Fernando Valley Sector Governance Council, which has the responsibility for overseeing bus operations in the SFV, as well as conducting the public hearings for service changes. The Council has authority to approve service changes for everything except the Orange Line and Metro Rapid (those have to be confirmed by the Metro Board of Directors). I was appointed by the City of Los Angeles when the Council was created in 2003 and continue to serve at the City’s pleasure.
Before my appointment (which does, indeed, make me a public official of Metro per state law) I was involved with Southern California Transit Advocates, which has a good working relationship with all of the transit agencies in the region. I have been a member of So.CA.TA for over ten years and presently serve on its Executive Board as the Public and Legislative Affairs Director. (It was my involvement in So.CA.TA which the City has cited as the primary reason for my Metro appointment.)
I also serve on Metro’s Citizens’ Advisory Council, which is an advisory body to the Metro Board of Directors; each Director can appoint up to four people to the CAC (I was appointed by David Fleming). I have served on the CAC for just under three years.
From 1996 to 2001, I was one of the Metro Passenger Advisors at West Valley Division 8. The Passenger Advisory Committees were an experiment in having four or five “seasoned” riders meet once a month with division management to communicate operational concerns and issues.
For the record, I receive $100 per meeting attended as a Governance Council member (which is intended as a stipend to cover expenses of the office). I receive no compensation as a CAC member. When I served on the PAC at D8, I received my monthly pass free of charge. As a Metro official, I carry a Metro identification badge which functions as a TAP pass (thus I can ride Metro Bus and Rail lines at no charge).
I also, at the request of Sheriff’s Cmdr. Dan Finkelstein, carry a set of keys to restart escalators on the Metro Rail system when I encounter stopped ones. I don’t get paid to do that, either.
Anything else you want to know?
Interesting conversation.
Generally speaking, I do find the way some people take offensive to any possible criticism or questioning of Metro darn near comical. I literally laugh at this stuff some times.
It’s just my opinion that some people are either so entrenched that they find criticism of Metro criticism of themselves, or so weathered from fighting outside forces that they lack the patience to deal with the internal ones. Those are both understandable conditions.
But then there’s this segment of basically unpaid MTA public relations representatives, who basically follow the company line (think conservative talk radio and daily Republic Party talking points memos), and I can unequivocally say I have no respect for them and think they do transit advocacy a disservice.
I’m not saying everyone fits into those three categories, but a lot do.
Me, maybe it’s my upbringing and experiences (black man in South LA educated in progressive schools, with an extensive background in politics), but I’ve never given any deference to a public agency, let alone a 13-member 600lb political gorilla with more discretionary funding than any other agency in Los Angeles County.
When they are right, they will be supported.
When they are wrong, they will be opposed.
When they are corrupt, they will be exposed.
But even on their best day, I trust but verify.
And thank you Browne for reminding people that we’re all shareholders in this agency.
So when will these be added on the greenline? Althought these arent perfect they still can be of some use to me and other riders of the greenline. I took two friends for a ride this weekend, We were going to Vegas but needed to rent a car, We jumped on the greenline and were pleased with the speed of the line. And loved the fact that the airport shuttle was free too( they never knew we had these resources to get to the airport). They only had three complaints, why doesnt it go to the airport? the station noise. and why arent there screens up that tell you when they train will arrive. Seems to me these things should be added on all and future lines.
I posted this over at Streets Blog LA:
In software development, this “work in progress” stage is called either alpha or beta and is used to test the software before a full release to ensure it is usable and free of bugs. During the beta testing phase, the software is released to a limited number of people who are well aware that they are using software that is still incomplete and the purpose of this stage is to get candid comments and criticism on the software to iron out the bugs.
Metro decided to go with an open beta testing phase (releasing the incomplete software to the general public, not a select group of testers) but they decided not to tell anyone that it was in beta. What’s more, it seems the comments and criticisms that are the reason for beta testing are unwelcome by Metro.
If Metro wishes to not have public criticism of beta stage software they should have held a closed beta (allowing only a limited portion of the general public to knowingly participate in the testing phase) and made participants signs a non-disclosure agreement. They could have then used the comments and criticisms from the beta testers to refine the software before a final release to the general public, who would be able to judge the software at its final tested and debugged stage. Barring this, Metro should expect criticism from its customers for releasing an unfinished product onto them.
The funniest thing is that the screen displays time in two forms (military vs. civilian) on the same screen. How amateur. Shame on the developers, but also shame on the people who accepted and approved them. It makes me think that the people who approved the displays didn’t actually look at them.
If I delivered a piece of software to my department with that kind of flaw, I’d be the object of ridicule. I’m not exaggerating. Yet when the MTA deploys something like this, we’re supposed to say “well it’s better than nothing”? Talk about low standards.
I wouldn’t say that comments are “unwelcome” but I do think that posting on a blog using hostile language (and you know who you are) pretty much guarantees that your comments will not be well received.
There is an old saying that you attract more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. I will tell you from experience (and if you read my post from earlier today, you know that I have had many years to develop good working relationships with Metro staff in many departments) that politely worded comments and criticisms are read and considered. Rants and the like are discarded without much more than a cursory glance.
By the way, I am told that the display “look” was created by the Metro Design Center, so suggestions sent to Matt Raymond can have an effect (the Design Center is a direct report to him).
THEY’RE GONE! Happy, now?
Be careful what you ask for … you might just get it …
You didn’t like the 24-hour times, now they’re gone.
(Most likely, someone at the Metro Design Center is working on a fix to show 12-hour times.)
aaron:
I was on the Orange, Green, and Red Lines that weekend. I have yet to ride the new Blue Line cars, though I might say they look very nice on the YouTube videos others have posted.
What I found kind of cool was they had Kendrick Perkins of the Celtics telling T passengers in a PSA recording in the stations to plan extra time for the NBA finals and to take the T. What if we had Luke Walton do that on the Metro? lol
Somehow though, I remember the Red Line operating efficiently, albeit at reduced speeds, during Nor’easters. I think they had ice scrapers and heated rails to keep the elements from taking over. But this was back when I lived in Boston in 97-00.
Yeah, the T and Breda will never stop pointing fingers at each other for why the new trolleys keep derailing, though I think most people would think it is the state of the rails… one portion of the Boylston Green Line being America’s oldest subway.
I have no idea how Muni’s announcements are done… you’re prob right about tripping signals underground. But I wonder how they’re tracked above ground, such as when you took the N or T to the Caltrain station. I’ve always kind of wondered why they put two platforms at 4th/King, when one before the split probably could have saved some money. Maybe they wanted to reduce conflicts, but it shouldn’t run into too much trouble since they’re not interlining with the L or J.
“Mission Bay” refers to the T-Third according to a Muni supe I asked at Embarcadero one day. I don’t know why they call it that, but Mission Bay is one of the areas the T-Third goes through, according to the map. I also have never taken the T past 4th/King. I was also confused because it would say “INBOUND N N Train, 3 minutes” and I would wonder why the lady annunciator repeated N twice, but it means there are two cars on that train.
Fred Camino:
Great post, Fred.
Yes, can all MetroRiderLA’ers get a set too, just in case? =]
MA: LMAO. Who knows, maybe the Metro Design Center won’t put up the schedule in 12 hour format… they’ll put real time info!
By any chance, has anyone rec’d a response from Matt Raymond over at Metro?
I haven’t yet received one, but I understand he’s a busy guy and probably can’t respond to every email. Two things to add to this already over-burdened comment section:
1. Re: An earlier comment. I actually like the DIN font they chose. Just my personal opinion. Fonts are pretty subjective, but I think it has a nice clean look to it.
2. I think it’s a little silly to ascribe very much to the tone of the comments in this thread or any other. I’m sure that those of us who actually emailed Matt were polite in our suggestions, and I doubt our more cynical comments on the blog had much effect (again, I really appreciate Kym posting the email address).
I tried to emphasize in my email that I understood that the signs were a work-in-progress, but that I was concerned that the current design was inappropriate. I’m worried that the design of the signs has been derailed by the year they spent waiting for the technology to be ready. During that year they only had the safety warnings ready to go, and I’m afraid that they designed the signs accordingly, putting the least important information in the most important design spot. Hopefully now that they’ve got the scheduling system starting to show itself, they’ll redesign around that.
Stephen: The reason for 2 platforms at 4th/King is because the “old” Caltrain extension’s platform is just south of 4th Street, but the T-Third needs to cross China Basin on the 4th Street bridge. You can somewhat see it from the Google Satellite view here. I don’t know if the Caltrain extension was built anticipating the T-Third or not, but I kind of doubt it. Of course, that begs the question – why didn’t they relocate the N-Judah’s platform to be between 4th and 3rd so that there’s only one platform shared by both the T and the N, rather than two split platforms? I have no answer for that
It’s obviously not the best LRT layout – it reminds me of Boston’s JFK/UMass, where there are two parallel red line platforms, one for the Braintree branch and the other for Ashmont, and you have to basically flip a coin as to which inbound train will come first. The reality is that people hover above the platform and then sprint down the steps for whichever train comes first, which is obviously not safe. I’m told a similar morning rush hour dance happens in SF – people strategically sit at the intersection waiting to see which comes first, the T or the N.
Anyhow, if “Mission Bay” means the T-Third, what is the inbound announcement for the N-Judah’s service? ;p I’ve only heard “Embarcadero” and “Mission Bay” announced over the PA system.
If I recall correctly, the T-Third Inbound is referred to as “Mission Bay” while the rest of the lines, including the N, are just referred to as their letter designation. So, if I am waiting at the Embacadero Muni platform, I might hear sopmething to this extent:
Inbound N, N train now approaching
Inbound Mission Bay, Mission Bay (referring to two cars) now approaching
I’m saying this because I remember hearing all the letter designations besides T. When the T is coming from Mission Bay into Market St, the letter designation turns into K… and the announcement is Outbound K, K.
What confuses me is why they didn’t just name the K and T the same letter since the T is now an extension of the K. Is it because they are planning on having the T spur into the proposed Chinatown subway?
I just sent off my email to MR. However, while posting links to the images created by Simon, I realized that my work computer does not display the images b/c it classified the website as Adult/Mature Content for whatever reason. I’m hoping that Matt will be able to access the information at Gateway Plz.
Kymberleigh Richards:
“Anything else you want to know?” Yes. Where do you get off claiming I stated you “lack objectivity”? (“…(and her boyfriend Randall) claiming I lack objectivity.”)
Browne may have made that claim, but I did not. Please make sure you know what you state lest you claim something libelous.
I must add that I was signed in via Browne’s computer, and that the above comment regarding another poster’s misstatement was made not by Browne but by BusTard.
Which, you must admit, is a good reason for me to presume that your posts are interchangeable.
If you did not challenge my objectivity in so many words, your attitude toward me in your posts does so. Therefore I stand by my opinion that you are both doing so.
Kymberleigh,
I take offense that you call BusTard my boyfriend, he’s not my boyfriend he’s my lover and I have a very explicit tape of us on the train to prove it.
You remember that Kym.
I’m a member of the mile high club, swingers united and various other x-rated organization, so really you need to do some research before you go around saying things about people’s relationships and the nature of them.
Browne
No, K, you are just flat out fucking wrong. You started out this thread with a comment accusing those with a differing point of view as “bashing Metro,” and now you end it with the wrong-headed assumption that I stated something when I did not. Moreover, you try to back up your incorrect statement with some bullshit. I do not stand for that type of shit, ESPECIALLY from government personnel.
Perhaps you should take courses in civics and reading comprehension before you continue charging about attempting to curb the criticism of private citizens with respect to government agencies, as well as putting forth falsehoods about citizens who dare to comment, especially as you are so quick to point out your intimate involvement with metro and other state agencies.
Methinks Fred is going to be stepping in and shutting this down any minute now.
Woops. I hope so too. I hosted them on webspace I co-own … with a raunchy college humor magazine. Here’s hoping it didn’t all get filtered out by work filters. Hmm, next time I’ll try to host them somewhere else.
Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860) once said: “It is a wise thing to be polite; consequently, it is a stupid thing to be rude. To make enemies by unnecessary and willful incivility is just as insane as proceeding to set your house on fire… Wax, a substance naturally hard and brittle, can be made soft by the application of a little warmth, so that it will take any shape you please. In the same way, by being polite and friendly, you can make people pliable and obliging, even though they are apt to be crabby and malevolent. Hence politeness is to human nature what warmth is to wax.”
Thanks Bert… and now we move on.