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	<title>Comments on: Shutting Down The Streets</title>
	<atom:link href="http://metroriderla.com/2008/04/22/shutting-down-the-streets/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://metroriderla.com/2008/04/22/shutting-down-the-streets/</link>
	<description>los angeles transit oriented lifestyle</description>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://metroriderla.com/2008/04/22/shutting-down-the-streets/comment-page-1/#comment-304169</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 02:05:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metroriderla.com/?p=1581#comment-304169</guid>
		<description>Up next for bus transit disruptions? May Day marches in Downtown L.A. At least there&#039;s an underground alternative....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Up next for bus transit disruptions? May Day marches in Downtown L.A. At least there&#8217;s an underground alternative&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Camino</title>
		<link>http://metroriderla.com/2008/04/22/shutting-down-the-streets/comment-page-1/#comment-304145</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Camino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metroriderla.com/?p=1581#comment-304145</guid>
		<description>LAofAnaheim: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;Imagine if buses continued on Wilshire (that’s public transportation too, not just the Red Line); maybe people would have an appreciation of buses as public transit.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Man, imagine that!  That would have been a GREAT  idea!  Keep one lane open, but just for buses!  I don&#039;t think it would ever fly, but I would have had a lot more respect for the Car-Free Earth Day if they had pulled that off.  Oh boy would drivers be pissed though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LAofAnaheim: </p>
<blockquote><p>Imagine if buses continued on Wilshire (that’s public transportation too, not just the Red Line); maybe people would have an appreciation of buses as public transit.</p></blockquote>
<p>Man, imagine that!  That would have been a GREAT  idea!  Keep one lane open, but just for buses!  I don&#8217;t think it would ever fly, but I would have had a lot more respect for the Car-Free Earth Day if they had pulled that off.  Oh boy would drivers be pissed though.</p>
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		<title>By: Wad</title>
		<link>http://metroriderla.com/2008/04/22/shutting-down-the-streets/comment-page-1/#comment-304139</link>
		<dc:creator>Wad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:10:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metroriderla.com/?p=1581#comment-304139</guid>
		<description>Rob, want to know what that $250 million buys?

Most of the cost will be in resurfacing Wilshire Boulevard to make the bus lanes level and smoother. Most of the money is a road project.

Also, this $250 million is only &quot;rent&quot; for Metro taking away a lane of traffic for four hours a day, weekdays only. Riders during middays and weekends, a not insignificant chunk of ridership, will get no benefit from this line. Line 720 runs 20 hours a day, every day.

During rush hour, the &quot;only&quot; part of bus-only lanes means vehicles making right turns. Because of the heavy pedestrian activity on Wilshire, cars cannot turn right until there are no pedestrians. Buses cannot pass until the cars move. Buses end up waiting a whole light cycle, and the ATSAC only gives 10 seconds of green if it happens to be in a good mood.

As you have said, taking a lane away for buses will lead to congestion in the remaining lanes. Bus riders should know this is bad for bus riders as well. When remaining lanes have to take up the burden of losing the lane, this means buses are trapped inside the bus-only lane. Has anyone not realized that &lt;em&gt;three&lt;/em&gt; different types of bus service will be using this lane? How are Rapids supposed to overtake locals that stop every 2-3 blocks? How fast can a 920 be when it makes so few stops that it&#039;s best for it to be in the center lanes, where all the congestion would be? In order for bus-only lanes to work, Metro would need to take two lanes of traffic in each direction, not just one.

This congestion ripples through the system. We can assume that the only people driving on Wilshire are going to be drivers who have a destination on or near Wilshire. Some others will opt to drive on the east-west arterials, such as Santa Monica, Olympic and Pico Boulevards, and east of Beverly Hills, Beverly Boulevard, Third Street, and Sixth and Eighth streets in Koreatown and downtown. The added traffic will end up severely slowing down bus services on these streets.

There&#039;s one additional problem: the Orange Line effect. After a daily ridership of somewhere between 20,000 and 25,000, Metro has admitted that the Zevway is operating beyond its capacity. This is a service that has a street all to itself and represents the truest representation of bus rapid transit, yet it has an upper limit of 20,000. Well, the 720 corridor is at 70,000 boardings. No bus-only system can, will or should handle such an extreme burden.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob, want to know what that $250 million buys?</p>
<p>Most of the cost will be in resurfacing Wilshire Boulevard to make the bus lanes level and smoother. Most of the money is a road project.</p>
<p>Also, this $250 million is only &#8220;rent&#8221; for Metro taking away a lane of traffic for four hours a day, weekdays only. Riders during middays and weekends, a not insignificant chunk of ridership, will get no benefit from this line. Line 720 runs 20 hours a day, every day.</p>
<p>During rush hour, the &#8220;only&#8221; part of bus-only lanes means vehicles making right turns. Because of the heavy pedestrian activity on Wilshire, cars cannot turn right until there are no pedestrians. Buses cannot pass until the cars move. Buses end up waiting a whole light cycle, and the ATSAC only gives 10 seconds of green if it happens to be in a good mood.</p>
<p>As you have said, taking a lane away for buses will lead to congestion in the remaining lanes. Bus riders should know this is bad for bus riders as well. When remaining lanes have to take up the burden of losing the lane, this means buses are trapped inside the bus-only lane. Has anyone not realized that <em>three</em> different types of bus service will be using this lane? How are Rapids supposed to overtake locals that stop every 2-3 blocks? How fast can a 920 be when it makes so few stops that it&#8217;s best for it to be in the center lanes, where all the congestion would be? In order for bus-only lanes to work, Metro would need to take two lanes of traffic in each direction, not just one.</p>
<p>This congestion ripples through the system. We can assume that the only people driving on Wilshire are going to be drivers who have a destination on or near Wilshire. Some others will opt to drive on the east-west arterials, such as Santa Monica, Olympic and Pico Boulevards, and east of Beverly Hills, Beverly Boulevard, Third Street, and Sixth and Eighth streets in Koreatown and downtown. The added traffic will end up severely slowing down bus services on these streets.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s one additional problem: the Orange Line effect. After a daily ridership of somewhere between 20,000 and 25,000, Metro has admitted that the Zevway is operating beyond its capacity. This is a service that has a street all to itself and represents the truest representation of bus rapid transit, yet it has an upper limit of 20,000. Well, the 720 corridor is at 70,000 boardings. No bus-only system can, will or should handle such an extreme burden.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Dawg</title>
		<link>http://metroriderla.com/2008/04/22/shutting-down-the-streets/comment-page-1/#comment-304120</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Dawg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metroriderla.com/?p=1581#comment-304120</guid>
		<description>Dawg: I can only hope the next time there is a suggestion to take away a lane for other uses the lesson is learned.

Wad: No doubt about it. You did unintentionally leave yourself open to:

I’d rather pay $5 billion to get it right the first time than $250 million to get it wrong forever.

Dawg replies:
It wasn&#039;t unintentional.  I don&#039;t mind discussing good enough versus perfect but I honestly don&#039;t know what is gained with even considering half-assed implementations except to avoid the eye-popping price of good enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dawg: I can only hope the next time there is a suggestion to take away a lane for other uses the lesson is learned.</p>
<p>Wad: No doubt about it. You did unintentionally leave yourself open to:</p>
<p>I’d rather pay $5 billion to get it right the first time than $250 million to get it wrong forever.</p>
<p>Dawg replies:<br />
It wasn&#8217;t unintentional.  I don&#8217;t mind discussing good enough versus perfect but I honestly don&#8217;t know what is gained with even considering half-assed implementations except to avoid the eye-popping price of good enough.</p>
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		<title>By: LAofAnaheim</title>
		<link>http://metroriderla.com/2008/04/22/shutting-down-the-streets/comment-page-1/#comment-304083</link>
		<dc:creator>LAofAnaheim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:48:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metroriderla.com/?p=1581#comment-304083</guid>
		<description>The most ironic thing of the Earth Day celebration on Wilshire...is they actually didn&#039;t let buses continue on Wilshire. Imagine if buses continued on Wilshire (that&#039;s public transportation too, not just the Red Line); maybe people would have an appreciation of buses as public transit. Wilshire was too de-car...not punish alternative modes of transportation. A** backward thinking by our policy makers. Also, I heard they advertised hybrid CAR technology at earth day? Jeez...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most ironic thing of the Earth Day celebration on Wilshire&#8230;is they actually didn&#8217;t let buses continue on Wilshire. Imagine if buses continued on Wilshire (that&#8217;s public transportation too, not just the Red Line); maybe people would have an appreciation of buses as public transit. Wilshire was too de-car&#8230;not punish alternative modes of transportation. A** backward thinking by our policy makers. Also, I heard they advertised hybrid CAR technology at earth day? Jeez&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Camino</title>
		<link>http://metroriderla.com/2008/04/22/shutting-down-the-streets/comment-page-1/#comment-303960</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Camino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 05:32:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metroriderla.com/?p=1581#comment-303960</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Ahhhh, Earthday, now with extra fumes!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And that&#039;s not even taking the patchouli and incense into consideration!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Ahhhh, Earthday, now with extra fumes!</p></blockquote>
<p>And that&#8217;s not even taking the patchouli and incense into consideration!</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://metroriderla.com/2008/04/22/shutting-down-the-streets/comment-page-1/#comment-303959</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 05:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metroriderla.com/?p=1581#comment-303959</guid>
		<description>Metro does what it does when it gets notified about street closures by any of the 88 cities in LA and/or the County itself.  Key here is that the street closure approval came from Los Angeles City Hall.  They approved the street closure.  Please express yourselves to your elected officials.  Metro knows it just sux to have its busiest bus lines rerouted to the inconvenience and displeasure of 60,000-ish riders. Remember such things on election day, but in the mean time, your elected representatives all have email addresses, office addresses, and phone numbers.  Tell your elected officials just how much you appreciate having Wilshire Boulevard shut down on a weekday so such stunts can be avoided in future earth day games.  Anyone care to calculate the addition tons of CO2 emitted by the additional gridlock created by this hair-brained street closure idea? Ahhhh, Earthday, now with extra fumes!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Metro does what it does when it gets notified about street closures by any of the 88 cities in LA and/or the County itself.  Key here is that the street closure approval came from Los Angeles City Hall.  They approved the street closure.  Please express yourselves to your elected officials.  Metro knows it just sux to have its busiest bus lines rerouted to the inconvenience and displeasure of 60,000-ish riders. Remember such things on election day, but in the mean time, your elected representatives all have email addresses, office addresses, and phone numbers.  Tell your elected officials just how much you appreciate having Wilshire Boulevard shut down on a weekday so such stunts can be avoided in future earth day games.  Anyone care to calculate the addition tons of CO2 emitted by the additional gridlock created by this hair-brained street closure idea? Ahhhh, Earthday, now with extra fumes!</p>
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		<title>By: Wilshire Center Car-Free Earth Day&#8230; O RLY? &#124; MetroRiderLA</title>
		<link>http://metroriderla.com/2008/04/22/shutting-down-the-streets/comment-page-1/#comment-303939</link>
		<dc:creator>Wilshire Center Car-Free Earth Day&#8230; O RLY? &#124; MetroRiderLA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 03:12:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metroriderla.com/?p=1581#comment-303939</guid>
		<description>[...] blocks of Wilshire, from Western to Harvard, were blocked from traffic, creating an oasis amidst the traffic such a move surely caused. Whatever, I wasn&#8217;t driving or riding in a bus, so I took the car-free pavement without care. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] blocks of Wilshire, from Western to Harvard, were blocked from traffic, creating an oasis amidst the traffic such a move surely caused. Whatever, I wasn&#8217;t driving or riding in a bus, so I took the car-free pavement without care. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: tykejohnson</title>
		<link>http://metroriderla.com/2008/04/22/shutting-down-the-streets/comment-page-1/#comment-303935</link>
		<dc:creator>tykejohnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 03:01:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metroriderla.com/?p=1581#comment-303935</guid>
		<description>I got on at vermont because anyone who takes wilshire knows, the earlier u get on the 720/920 the better, since the further u go to get on, the better chance of it being completely over flowing and pass u by. But thanks for the suggestion, Ill make sure to take the purple line to westwood for LAs next pointless earth day in 2030.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got on at vermont because anyone who takes wilshire knows, the earlier u get on the 720/920 the better, since the further u go to get on, the better chance of it being completely over flowing and pass u by. But thanks for the suggestion, Ill make sure to take the purple line to westwood for LAs next pointless earth day in 2030.</p>
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		<title>By: Wad</title>
		<link>http://metroriderla.com/2008/04/22/shutting-down-the-streets/comment-page-1/#comment-303933</link>
		<dc:creator>Wad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 02:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metroriderla.com/?p=1581#comment-303933</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I can only hope the next time there is a suggestion to take away a lane for other uses the lesson is learned.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No doubt about it. You did unintentionally leave yourself open to:

I&#039;d rather pay $5 billion to get it right the first time than $250 million to get it wrong forever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I can only hope the next time there is a suggestion to take away a lane for other uses the lesson is learned.</p></blockquote>
<p>No doubt about it. You did unintentionally leave yourself open to:</p>
<p>I&#8217;d rather pay $5 billion to get it right the first time than $250 million to get it wrong forever.</p>
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