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ChineseWe Want Our Google Transit!
Last month, Siel over at the Emerald City blog wrote about the Google Transit Earth Day Challenge first proposed by the folks over at World Changing. The idea of the challenge was to get transit agencies to get their systems onto Google Transit by Earth Day 2008, which is on April 22nd. With 8 days to go and no word from Metro, it’s unlikely that LA will be on Google Transit any time soon, but let’s look at what Google Transit could do for us.
By now everyone is aware of the ubiquitous Google Maps and its fantastically innovative way of providing driving directions, simply input a start and end location and Google calculates the best route with turn by turn directions, time estimates, and of course a corresponding map. It’s likely that Google Maps made the once neccessary Thomas Guide a bit irrelevant since its release. Unfortunately, for those without cars, the directions provided by Google Maps are for the most part useless, and transit users have had to rely on proprietary programs created by the cash-strapped transit agencies to get transit directions. These programs, like our own Metro Advanced Trip Planner, tend to be clunky, unattractive, and often teeter along the fine line of usable and unusable. And when compared to most modern web applications, especially the ones created by Google, the agencies programs just can’t compete.
The ever innovative and resourceful Google noticed this, and in December of 2005 introduced Google Transit to Portland. A year later five other U.S. cities were added. Today, 37 cities/regions worldwide have their transit systems on Google Transit, including Burbank, Thousand Oaks, and Orange County in our neck of the woods. In these cities, when anyone goes to Google Maps and does a search for directions, in addition to the normal “Drive There” option, users will see a new option, “Take Public Transit”.
Clicking the “Take Public Transit” option updates the directions to reflect various public transit trips. A list of suggested trips is offered, and clicking each trip in the menu will automatically update the map and the step-by-step directions. Directions include time estimates, distances, bus and train lines, walking directions, transfer wait times, and cost. In other words, Google Transit provides users with everything they need to know to plan their transit trip, down to the most minute details, details that are often absent from agency trip planners. And it is all housed within the same Google Maps interface we’ve all come to know and love.
Metro’s trip planner is antiquated and ugly, it’s Web 1.0 in a Web 2.0 world. Having Google Transit in Los Angeles would not only improve trip planning for current transit riders, it would introduce the transit option to non-transit riders in a way that was never before possible. The first thing most drivers do when planning a new trip is head over to Google Maps and search for directions. With the “Take Public Transit” option included with each search, drivers can see if a public transit trip would be faster/easier/cheaper than a car trip. That’s the kind of publicity that a million Miss Traffic Contests could never bring about. Google Transit does the unheard of by putting public transit on the same level as auto transportation.
Metro needs to get on this, and fast. What’s really amazing about Google Transit is that it provides its system to agencies for free. You hear that Metro, F-R-E-E. All Metro would have to do is submit its transit schedule information to Google using this handy-dandy guide that Google provides for free. Seriously Metro, have your tech guys take a break from Metro Interactive and have them get Metro on Google Transit now. Do it in 8 days and I promise I’ll stop being snarky about Miss Traffic.
Discussion
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This would be so great, though it would take away my title as “go to” transit chick in regards to bus and train routes.
I think the free thing is what’s bothering METRO, if only Google Transit could somehow make their service cost lots of money it would look more appealing to suits at METRO.
METRO is kind of like a 13 year old girl, yes the payless version of the shoe looks just as good, but what if everyone finds out that you went to payless? What would happen to the social order of junior high?
Browne
I would love to see this too. I regularly plan trips between Orange County and Los Angeles, and (surprise!) OCTA is ahead of the curve on this by integrating their schedules and Metrolink IEOC / OC line schedules into Google Transit.
Someone should let Google Transit or OCTA know that Metrolink is not $1.25, as it states $1.25 vs. $20 driving! Haha, that sure would be nice though…
As a transit planner in Southern California who’s firm was involved in doing the leg work to help set up Google transit for several of the agencies you mentioned, i can tell you the program is fantastic. We are currently in the process of setting up google transit in several other communities throughout California and i can tell you it definitely seems to be catching on and growing quickly.
It should be noted, however, that the process of doing the leg work for google transit is one of the most time-consuming, laborious processes known to man. We have found it takes several days to simply do the GIS (route mapping) portion of the process. Our clients already had these files made, but due to the precision required by the web-based software, every single route inevitably must be redone. For a system the size of Metro, it could take months or years to properly create all of the files necessary for Google Transit. The application has, however, been around for several years now and one could argue they had plenty of time.
As a side note, it would also be nice to see Metro use NextBus. The Glendale Beeline uses it and it really makes using transit much easier.
I’ve seen the “Take Public Transit” link come alive only once or twice using Google Maps for Los Angeles (I’d used it before in the Bay Area) and seeing it come up, I’ll admit, was like a revelation.
C’mon Metro, Go Google!
Thanks for the info Michael E.
I’m sure it’s more complicated than it seems, but at the same time it’s probably easier than building a subway or implementing fare gates.
This is great. Many people fixed with the mindset, “I can’t get where I need to via public transit” don’t realize they can.
My friend Paul needed to go from Burbank/Woodman to Highland/SantaMonica. He said he “needed” his car. He had no idea the 156 would take him right there.
Of course, for those who want the glory days of the car culture to come back, finding out you don’t “need” a car as much as you think you do isn’t welcome news.
Fred,
Have you tried to contact Metro about their plans to interface Google Transit? What about them updating the trip planner on the Metro website?
Michael E,
In order to provide data to Google to use in Google Transit, would Metro have to reveal any proprietary data? If not maybe a group of software developers can work with Metro and do it on a voluntary bases. Do so see something like that being feasible?
In theory, you could do it from your house. All you need is a cartographic mapping system (we use ArcMAP), a spreadsheet system, access to the transit service’s turn-by-turns (bus x travels east along wilshire until making a right at la brea…etc), and a great deal of patience. Chances are you will need permission from metro. It doesn’t take much in the way of computer genius (any technical support is available from Google), i wouldn’t say any of the transit planners doing this know anything more about computers than your average professional.
To be clear, i don’t think any proprietary information is necessary, at least not with the agencies we deal with.
I wasn’t necessarily saying the process is cost-prohibitive (especially when compared to fare gates). I think the service goes a long way toward smoothing the transition between single-occupant vehicle use and transit use. Anything helping choice riders ease into transit use is a valuable tool.
I’ve heard rumors that Metro is indeed working on this. No word on a rollout date. Anyone want to volunteer to call Marc Littman and check?
Michael E,
Could you say more about which parts of generating the feed were the hardest? (Was it the optional shapes for the routes?) What problems did you encounter? What tools/languages did you need to use?
Yes its true, Metro and Google are working on it. Metro Bus data is ready, Metro Rail data is being formatted. Release data hasn’t been set just yet, wouldn’t make sense to release one without the other, y’all will just COMPLAIN. And neither Metro nor Google needs more of that, at least not on this issue. (The Thai Fest article was great…)
Also look for Metrolink to make an annoucement soon.
As for you do-it-yourself types (developers?) test your skills using the Google Transit public feeds from participating agencies:
http://code.google.com/p/googletransitdatafeed/wiki/PublicFeeds
Oh the horror! Not more feedback from our customers! Running a transit agency would be GREAT if it weren’t for all the RIDERS!!!
Awesome, thanks Matt.
Matt: Matt, please dont be kidding.
I’m not kidding. And seriously, if Metro had released bus-only data, they’d only hear how dumb they are (well, except from the BRU, they’d probably be thrilled and perhaps have a yellow-shirted press conference announcing their “victory”). The software program Metro uses to create bus and rail schedules with had a pricey upgrade last Fall. Part of that upgrade is the ability to create Google Transit friendly data exports. I’ve seen the bus test data in Google Transit and it looks great. Rail schedules, while less numerous than bus, are more complicated and are still being worked on. As an example, the geocoding of a bus stop is a single point. A subway station is a 60 story buidling on its side with multiple entry points. I know, I know, governmental BS from your point of view, you just want your Google Transit now. It’s coming!
It doesn’t seem like much info about what’s going on here at Metro gets out to you folks. Unfortunately, it often sounds like the worst is assumed in the absence of information. So, hopefully, the following info will help put everybody’s mind at ease.
Metro’s goal is to make transit data more widely available - including Google Transit. We like the fact that it is free.
1) As Matt indicated, Metro has sent and is testing bus data on a Google Transit test site.
Using the web services described above, a new suite of voice response applications is being developed to support Metro customers and a new 511 service for the Southland. Some of these services will be implemented this summer, others early next year.
2) Metro will have train/subway data for Google Transit ready soon(comes from a different system).
3) Google Maps has been integrated into NexTrip and is being tested internally for release soon.
4) Real-time data for Metro services ONLY (so far) has been integrated into NexTrip and is being tested internally for release soon.
5) A new Trip Planner with integrated Google Maps and a more powerful routing algorithm will be available in beta before summer.
6) All new trip planning, routing, scheduling functions used on the web are being implemented as web services that will be available to public/private developers for integrating/extending into their own site or for creating new services. No charge or licensing involved.
7) All of our applications are created with open source software. We do not pay license fees of any kind.
There are other activities on-going as well - but the above seem to relate most to your topic.
- Doug
Matt = Luke Skywalker
Doug = Obe Wwon Kenobi
Holy crap, the MTA is doing something right? Wha?!
Doug:
Thanks for the information Doug. This is great news for MetroRiders.
metrorider@elhay.net
In my humble opinion, Doug should be Metro employee of the century.
That sounds really fantastic. I’m sure when it comes out, there’ll be some stupid thing we all bitch about, but it says a lot of good things that several really serious issues (bad online trip planner, lack of online friendly maps and schedules, no announcements when the next train is coming) are all on tap to be solved some time this year.
Now if only the metro blog were actually staffed by people and those people knew this stuff and told us about it via posts…
[See! More bitching! ;)]
Just wanted to add that we’ve been lobbying Google and the agencies in the places we live for a “Bike There” option.
Of course, we let folks know about the Google Earth Day Challenge as well.
http://googlemapsbikethere.org/
Keep up the lobbying, Google is open to the bike project. When Metro met with Google, they did express interest in biking - We gave them the Countywide bike map as an example of the kind of info some MPO’s and multimodal transportation agencies produce. My guess is that they’re looking for the geocoding by bike lane class to be able to produce an online tool. It’s a more complex and less standardized data stream ‘cuz each responsible agency/city/county produces it own in-house non-standarized data for tracking bike lane locations/classes. Its a different situation from using the bus/rail schedules that large transit agencies produce with Giro’s Hastus system. Not impossible, and in some ways easier (no schedule on a bike lane!) but definitely a challenge for Google due to the kind of data being kept/produced (or not) nationwide about bike lanes, and which buses and rail lines allow bikes (and at what hours)…
Peter:
Peter, it looks like you’re on your way to building a community of bikers on your site–why not channel some of that energy into compiling a list of bike data sets that cities around the world have put together? That way, anyone who wants to build a biking site (whether it’s Google, Ask, independent developers, whoever) will have a bunch of pointers to start from.
Metrolink’s gonna be on Google Transit too
I just wrote a followup post to the one you linked to — Yay Google Transit!
[...] Two days ago I said, We want our Google Transit! [...]
One thing about bike data: it really shouldn’t be recommended based on the government classifications of “bike routes”, etc.
The MTA’s own study (conducted in 2004) showed that bicycle riders in L.A. County more often use streets that are heavily trafficed by cars. That is:
You can read more here: http://bikeoven.com/epop/