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ChineseThink Blue, Think Metro… Sort Of
Image courtesy of mrjerz.
Dodger Stadium has long been hailed as one of the least car free friendly/public transit accessible ballparks in the nation, especially in comparison to their NL West rivals, the Giants and Padres. The stadium could’ve been built with the beauty of Elysian Park in mind but instead it was decided by the parlance of the times to destroy any sense of connection to the city by not only ruining said park and paving it over with one of the largest parking lots I’ve ever seen for a sports arena, football stadiums included, but by facing home plate towards a pointless hill rather than the lights of downtown—the lights of the city we all proudly call home.
Obvious complaints about the terribly car-centric 1950’s planning aside we all are still wishing and hoping something in the McCourt world changes for the good of us non-drivers and therefore, the city. But $15 a car in a full parking lot of 16,000 automobiles on 21 terraced lots is understandably hard for him to turn down. My dream would be for a trolley to travel from the Gold line China Town station up and around the stadium and down to Sunset, but that dream is far off and the season is almost here. Streetsblog puts it best when summing up LADOT’s uselessness on the subject:
Major League Baseball might be in Spring Training, but the LADOT’s excuse machine was in mid-season form. The Department seemed uninterested in exploring transit options, offering a variety of excuses ranging from “it’s difficult to get buses up the hill” to “there are limits on how much the Dodgers can kick in because of FTA regulations” to “shuttle service connected to existing routes could cost up to $200,000.”
So here we are everyone. The Golden season of the beloved, even if wavering, Dodgers, starts this Saturday with an exhibition game at the Coliseum against an equally storied franchise, the Boston Red Sox.
The Coliseum, which holds more than 90,000, is insane for a baseball game so don’t be one of the idiots stuck in the insanity of the traffic that will ensue because of it. And more importantly, don’t drop $25 to be apart of it! Instead, do as every fun loving and logical person will do, take Metro.
To my surprise the Dodgers actually have Metro as an option on par with driving for this game at their page for this game, though most likely because of financial goals rather than societal, since McCourt won’t be making that $15 per car like they would over at Chavez Ravine. But not to be cynical, I applaud the effort, even if a weak handed one. Sadly, over at the Dodger Stadium’s info page, the page for the other 81 home games, Metro or Bike options are nowhere to be found, and parking/driving directions own the page.
Personally, to get to this weekend’s game and festivities, I’d take my bike with me aboard the Blue line and get off at Grand (the second stop heading south from 7th/Metro) and ride the short way to Exposition Park. For those that live downtown or nearby, biking straight there will be your best option so you can completely avoid the nonsense traffic that will most certainly ensue.
All in all, it seems we public transit advocates can’t have everything and we’ll be forced to accept the mediocrity and endless delays of success from McCourt, LADOT, and Metro. Let’s hope the Dodgers aren’t so lackluster.
Discussion
Both comments and pings are currently closed.
Please keep discussions civil: exercise Troll Controll.
LADOT DASH Route F, Route King-East, and Route Southeast (Pueblo del Rio) all serve the Coliseum.
Also last year we had a contest to find routes to the Coliseum for the Nike Hit Run Remix, check out the comments for transit route suggestions.
Didn’t the original Silver Line proposal have a Dodger Stadium stop?
Seeing as I used to live within cheering distance of Fenway Park and used to walk there and remember the outrage when bleacher seats went to $1.50 perhaps I can make a comment without getting beaten up.
What would a fair price be for the trolley? Like you say they’d be giving up $15/car or ~$4-$5 per person. Dodgers nosebleeds $13-$20. Red Sox $26-$50. Hmmm.
There is a shuttle that will run from Dodger Stadium to the Coliseum. Parking at Dodger Stadium is free, and the shuttle is also free. This is exactly what I’ll be doing on Saturday. Link: http://www.lacoliseum.com/content/1/home/dodgers/DODGERSHUTTLE.htm
They should have this for all home games. I know they used to have a shuttle service for Friday night games in the past. Sadly the best option right now is taking the 2 and getting off at Stadium Way I believe and walk the hill which is not that bad actually. I’ve done that at least twice in the past.
That’s what I usually do as well, and like you said it’s not bad, but like so much transit in this town, it’s a hack. I always feel like I’m using the transit system in ways it wasn’t really meant for.
u can take the 2 or the 4 and walk up the hill, which as fred and rogedog said is a piece of cake. but people just don’t like to do it. it works perfectly if you’re sitting in the infield reserve/upper reserve etc because those seats, which range from 10 to the 100s, are directly at the top of the hill. however, if you’re down in the outfield reserves or bleachers it sux pretty hard to go all the way to the top of the stadium and then have to go way down to the bottom using those idiotically small staircases. man… the mistakes of dodger stadium are limitless, even if once you get in its fantastic.
and robdawg, to be fair, i completely agree with the fact that prices have to go up when huge improvements are made. wrigley did the same exact thing after revamping and adding the bleachers that go over waveland and sheffield. however, they have the red line stop 10 feet away. we have no such luck. not to mention, mccourt has raised prices a great deal since ‘04 and all he’s done is, change out the seats, in doing so created box seats (which new price covers any cost incurred to change), “mute the color palate” of dodger stadium and create a parking schematic that has yet to work. so yes, prices should go up when improvements are made.
same goes for transit, i was for the fair increases because it was necessary. therefore, i believe that if mccourt and the city finally got down to some serious talks with each other on how to logically improve access to dodger stadium which would improve the area’s both around and far from the stadium i believe a trolley (or something similar) would be the answer. as for an exact price, i think $4-5 is completely acceptable.
They should take a lot of that parking space and use it for development and park space. Then to put a trolley there from Sunset would make sense. Then the Silver Line could make the connection to the rest of Metro Rail.
About the way the stadium is faced, I like it. It makes everything seem more natural. I love going there for day games and taking in the game and the scenery.
I remember when McCourt bought the team, I thought that he would surely initiate a plan to move Dodger Stadium, and develop the land in Chavez Ravine— since he is a real estate developer from Boston. From a transit perspective, this may still be the best option. I think it was pointed out on this blog, that baseball stadiums (unlike football stadium) are being placed in the city center- like in SF and SD. Building a new dodger stadium in Downtown would seem like the most ideal- but it doesn’t seem McCourt has ever publicly embraced this sort of idea.
Dodger Stadium will never be torn down. The stadium is actively being renovated; McCourt is in it for the long haul. However, I don’t see why development (housing, parks, and commercial) can’t be brought to the parking lots. It could be like Playa Vista, except this would take away an environmental nightmare.
Tony,
That’s an excellent idea. That would be the key to ever investing in a Transit alternate develop a commercial/residential center right next to the stadium and then build a new Gold Line or LRT stop at one of the parking lots and then replace the surface lots with parking structures.
back during the “cornfield park” contest, Field Operations, one of the three finalists, had redesigned that whole area including building a new ball park for the dodgers where the cornfield now is. of the three finalists, this plan was the most advantageous and by far the best designed. it included the optimum use of all the spaces involved including Elysian Park. However, it was also the most expensive and bold and LA isn’t one to spend money on actually improving the city for the common good, let alone be bold.
so, since dodger stadium will never be moved, the best alternative would be getting mass transit to the stadium. imho, the trolley from chinatown’s gold line station up and around and down to sunset would be best and probably cheapest and to make “ends meet” mccourt can do what’s obvious–stop throwing away such precious land on paved parking, and invest it in real development. it’s amazing mccourt hasn’t done this already, seeing as, like mike said, a real estate developer.
Are there any “Red Cars” still in good enough condition to use as a trolley?
I think, McCourt is trying to play it cool and under the radar before he does something as bold as that. Imagine the uproar from the fans if he tried to do that immediately upon ownership. He would have been stoned to death with Fastballs thrown by the fans.
It seems every frickin sporting event in this city is characterized as people showing up late and leaving early,All because of traffic. no wonder our fan base here for all our teams are weak, and fairweather. Dodger stadium isn’t the only place that stinks in regard to public transportation, I’m an avid Soccerfan and have had Galaxy Season tickets since the Home Depot center opened, the one thing that really sucks is parking is like 20 dollars and public transportation is non existent and isn’t even encouraged. AEG likes their parking money. Things might change though they actually created a fan expierience dept. And are persuing having a shuttle/promoting public transit on their site from the blue line. it might take a long time though. to late for me I didn’t renew my tickets 20 dollars for parking takes its toll.
Henry,
I’m a Chivas fan, but that’s besides the point. I actually find it easier to go to the Home Depot Center via transit than Dodger Stadium. You have the 130 and the 205 which both lines are accessible from the Blue Line. The 130 at the Artesia Station and the 205 at the Rosa Parks or Artesia.
When I think about how great transit is for the Hollywood Bowl 6 miles away it is mystifying why the same system wouldn’t work for Dodger Stadium. BTW I am a regular rider of the #653 bus. Now get your jaw off the floor and get the same thing for ball games. Oh, and Sox win 8-3.
The bus just hasn’t been popular. Ever think that the reason is the easy availability is parking? Take that away and people will find other ways to get there. My idea kills two birds with one stone. It gets some green around Dodger Stadium and forces people to find alternate ways to get to the stadium.
I know that McCourt has plans for a CityWalk type development around the stadium. I want something more so that regular bus service will be practical, and maybe even a trolley line.
You don’t want a trolley line. Fixed rail lacks the maximum circuit density necessary to serve peak service loads like ball games or concerts. You need buses.
I think we need options. Buses would be great. I think a trolley line would very much spur development around the stadium and stations and create a true night at the ball game, like in other cities. You’ve said it yourself, one of the biggest flubs Metro did with the Red Line was bypassing the Hollywood Bowl.
Re: #653 bus, how popular is it on bowl nights?
#653 is typically 3 buses. 2 full and the last anywhere from 1/2 to 3/4ths full. $5 RT and much faster than driving. They collect the RT fare at the start and the ride back is “free.” Man seeing 85mph on the speedometer of some of those older lowstep buses is scary. Occasionally we’ll get a purchased service “coach” with reclining seats.
as i’ve stated, i’m for the trolley line for all the reasons above: night life, development, green, stress free, better regular attendance, etc. but i’m also for anything that will give people that don’t want/feel like driving an option. which means, i’m for busses that run from union station or chinatown station (whichever makes more sense) up around the stadium and down to sunset. it just makes sense for this to start now because soon enough the gold line extension will serve east LA and that whole area will have the easy option of NOT having to drive, not to mention the already working gold line and anyone near a red line stop.
as for people from the west, hwood/etc., they can take the 2/4 (from either their location or transfer from sunset/vermont or sm/vermont) and no longer have to walk “all that way” up to the stadium. it’s truly a win/win and could prove the need and desire for a trolley to replace it when development of the parking area that’s no longer needed, happens. and even if mccourt delays development of the parking into something worthwhile, businesses near the sunset/stadium way junction will pop and up and flourish just like they would near chinatown. ballparks are one of the best ways to revamp an entire area and recreate the face of a city, there’s no point in underestimating that. some cities do it with a simple minor league team, how can we not do it with the dodgers?
i’ve never taken the hollywood bowl shuttle, just bike up from hwood/highland station, so i have no frame of ref for that.
Did you not read about my whole idea for the area?
I did read the whole idea. I just stayed on topic. Serving Dodger stadium with a trolley line is a bad idea because it isn’t the right mode for the service to be provided. A trolley would serve only to drain resources from buses.
I agree there was never any question that McCourt thought he was buying developable acreage. What I don’t think he understood was how expensive it would be to buy the City Council. he should have asked Eli.
And I was saying that it would be possible if some of the parking lot were developed; then there would be a better reason for that trolley.
Yeah Tony, no problem there but let’s face it. We can have a bus program operating in time for Memorial Day and a trolley in time for the next LA Olympics, maybe. Let us not forget this is private property. If/when McCourt brings forward with a master plan then we can see which transit ideas are viable. It isn’t productive use of time or money to propose slapping down fixed rail in anticipation or inducement anymore than it would be push trough a new unneeded freeway just because we know it would fill up in just a few years.
Or we can switch and watch soccer like the rest of the world.
*ducks*
i’m with rob dawg on this one. a bus service is most needed and feasible right now. i want the development and the trolley for sure, but right now, if there’s some serious discussion between the powers that be, we could get a real service started before joe torre retires. and when i say service, i mean a actually useful one that runs often and preferably has a lane to bypass all the nonsense traffic in and out.
Soccer, a gentleman’s game played by barbarians. Rugby, a barbaric game played by gentlemen.
United States, current reigning and undefeated Rugby Olympic champions.
Obviously for right now a trolley would make no sense. I want a buses as a temporary solution. However, it does concern me about how there used to be one and the ridership on it was low. If some of the parking is eliminated, then more people would take it. Of course, that cannot happen now, so what instead can be done to lure people onto these shuttles?
Rugby is impressive. All the rough and toughness of football without any of the padding. Sort of like riding the 720 bus over all those potholes in Westwood.
lol
The nature of sporting/civic/cultural events is such that they are ill suited to fixed guideway transit solutions. Buses can “fan out” it is that simple.
Because too many people are parking we need less parking? We could save money if we eliminated the Red Line and pushed people back into cars. That kind of logic works both ways and doesn’t make transit more attractive by making POVs less attractive.
The solution is so simple I don’t understand why there’s hand wringing. I take the Chatsworth #653 to the Hollywood Bowl for $5. call it the #653H. Duplicate the entire Hollywood Bowl network, 668, 671, the whole 65x series I think and move them 6 miles south and east.
Rob Dawg has a good point. I think a trolley is a great idea as part of a private redevelopment of that area. I believe the Silver Line project goes by the Dodger Stadium. I’d rather see the whole Silver Line get revived than just focus on Dodger Stadium by itself.
The real misfortune was building such a large project with no transit there in the first place.
I’d improve bus service to Dodger Stadium for now, get the Silver Line going and then incorporate connecting Dodger Stadium to the Silver Line. But hey, if the private developers see putting a trolley in now a part of a quality redevelopment of the parking area, go for it.
But then, I don’t go to sporting events usually. I’m still seeking to get quality bus service to the Getty that doesn’t sabotage the efficiency of the 761 Rapid.
That’s exactly what I’m saying Dan. I don’t know where Rob is disagreeing with me.
along with the shuttle service for us east-siders there should be the same service, probably most effective if done by a private company, that has a central pick up area in different parts of los angeles, much like the fly away. maybe one in westwood, one in hollywood, one in east LA, etc. obviously the company itself would have to figure out if this is profitable and more importantly, marketable. if its near parking structures than those people dedicated to driving can simply drive to a westwood parking lot (or bus it/train it) get on the dodger bus and forget about it. it would have to be less than the $15 it would cost to park and it’d have to allure people in as well. i’m sure if it was a coach bus with a bathroom and allowed drinking that’d be enough to get about 90 percent of the people on board. sadly, i have no capital.
I didn’t think he was.
Well, L.A. will get a rail line to the Dodgers about the same time we get a football team again.
You are aware that the Hollywood Bowl services are subsidized by the Bowl itself, right?
Ask McCourt if he’ll duplicate those subsidies. Let us know what he says.
And, before you tell me Metro should be running service directly, read this staff report from 2006 prepared when Antonovich said the same thing:
http://boardarchives.metro.net/Items/2006/08_August/20060816OPItem28.pdf
I’ll give you the best quotes here:
Section 2.16 of the Metro Transit Service Policy defines the agency’s role with regard to providing special event service. The policy is designed to prevent violations of the Federal charter bus regulations and states that such services should be provided only when the following conditions are met: it wil not interfere with our regular operation; the operation fits within the scope of regular Metro Bus operations (e.g. fares, span and routing); the service is provided on a full cost recovery basis, and there are no available or interested private operators.
and
Seasonal service to Dodger Stadium with a premium fare existed from 1962 through 1994 via Line 635 between Downtown Los Angeles and Dodger Stadium. This service was discontinued in 1994 due to budgetary constraints and low ridership.
The report also goes on to say that the Dodgers themselves attempted such a service from Union Station, with LADOT-operated traffic control measures to make it run faster, in the 2004 season. And they could not attract sufficient ridership to justify the cost.
I believe the problem is as Tony said. As long as there is parking at the stadium, our carcentric population will insist on driving there.
I believe the problem is as Tony said. As long as there is parking at the stadium, our carcentric population will insist on driving there.
Are you saying that somehow we and I mean we Hollywood Bowl patrons (same seats many decades) are somehow less car centric? That flies in the face of reason, pricing structure, demographics and my extreme anecdote.
I don’t see why the Bowl would need to subsidize the 65x lines. They are head and shoulders high and above the most profitable lines the LAMTA administers. If anything the Bowl should be getting paid by the AQMD for the air pollution credit.
They are less car-centric when they take those shuttles to the Hollywood Bowl. Are you going to tell me that you will drive to the Hollywood Bowl and park there? Of course not, we want the same sort of thing for Dodger Stadium.
They are less car-centric when they take those shuttles to the Hollywood Bowl. Are you going to tell me that you will drive to the Hollywood Bowl and park there? Of course not, we want the same sort of thing for Dodger Stadium.
Tony, more a case of why two cultural events only a few miles apart cannot achieve similar results. I’m the resident despoiler of the planet here and yet I take transit some large multiple more than the typical SoCal denizen. Is not the typical Dodger fan more typical than I?
It’s because you cannot park at the Hollywood Bowl. What would the results be if there were virtually no parking at Dodger Stadium?
Tony, you don’t get it. I would drop the Bowl if access were Dodger Stadium class. There is lots of parking at the Bowl, expensive and inconvenient. For 5 people POV it is much cheaper. Still I wouldn’t do it. Transit is better and still it is criticized. Make transit better and forget all the stuff about making POVs less better.
I’m saying both. If we took out the parking and had transit access, then you can be assured that people would take transit. I’m not saying to just remove parking and leave it at that. That would be absurd.
Interestingly, the Feds are starting to crack down on charter service. They’ve informed Foothill that they should not be providing the Hollywood Bowl bus service this year, and apparently that was the cause for the cancellation of the 175 to Marshall High, when for years MTA ran a special route “2-4″ that made one trip a day to and from Marshall.
Why would they crack down on shuttle buses?