Comments on: Traffic And Congestion Costs Every Los Angeles Citizen $1561 Annually

By: Streetsblog LA » Today’s Headlines

Streetsblog LA » Today’s Headlines — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 15:37:36 +0000

[...] Crashes Cost SoCal More Than Congestion (Metro Rider, LAist, Daily [...]

By: FredCamino

FredCamino — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 02:33:49 +0000

I would guess, even though I never met Fred in person, that Fred and Ubrayj would hit it off really well in real life.

Real life? Who needs it!

By: Damien Newton

Damien Newton — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 02:25:21 +0000

I would guess, even though I never met Fred in person, that Fred and Ubrayj would hit it off really well in real life. Thanks for the video plug…it’s an awesome watch if you have 10 minutes.

By: FredCamino

FredCamino — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 02:01:11 +0000

The auto based society I believe is a reason why we pay higher taxes than we need to and people in the United States spend on average 19% of income on transport.

Gas taxes and the car culture created a fundamental change in the American psyche. Such proof of the automobile’s addictive powers. A country that once rallied against virtually all forms of taxation began to beg for gas taxes in the early 1900s. America’s addiction to the car has led to more government control and intervention in our lives, a positively un-American idea.

By: FredCamino

FredCamino — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 01:47:16 +0000

If something has a cost, and the cost is not paid for directly, then it is paid for by someone else in one form or another. It’s called an indirect subsidy.

Public transit systems have a cost (both internal and external), user fees don’t cover that whole cost, money from elsewhere does. Subsidized.

Auto transportation systems have a cost (both internal and external), user fees don’t cover that whole cost, money from elsewhere does. Subsidized.

I don’t care if I spent $3.5 billion dollars of my very own money on a 500 foot giant robot that I can ride in and do ollies on a giant robot skateboard. If I don’t directly pay for the giant robot skate ramp, the giant robot sidewalks, the full price for the plutonium that gives my giant robot life, and the damage I cause with my giant robot feet and my giant robot farts, then someone else is.

You probably wouldn’t be too happy to know that your tax dollars went to pay to clean up the mess my giant robot created.

By: Rob Dawg

Rob Dawg — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 01:06:16 +0000

Here give me your transit pass… snip snip gone. There do you feel subsidized? That’s what you just said happens when drivers are in auto accidents. Depreciating an asset is not a subsidy. Well at least not for auto users. In an interesting twist of accounting rules that is what happens to capital assets of transit agencies. They sometimes claim depreciation and loss. Fairly routine stuff for a business. the funny thing is transit agencies pay none of their capital expenses which is not a normal business practice.

I have absolutely no problem listening to an enumeration of the costs of autos internal and external. There are both. Thing is congestion costs and traffic accidents are not subsidies.

By: The Overhead Wire

The Overhead Wire — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 00:45:34 +0000

Subsidy is one thing which I think Fred hit right on the head, but savings is another. It’s important to find out that once we get out of our self centered bubbles to invest in real transportation options together, we could actually save people money! The auto based society I believe is a reason why we pay higher taxes than we need to and people in the United States spend on average 19% of income on transport. In areas like New York City people only use 9% of their income. 10% is a big deal. Sure it’s subsidized (let’s use ‘invested in’) but it sure saves more money than the car does.

By: Tony Fernandez

Tony Fernandez — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 23:28:51 +0000

Rob, that info only shows how much more it costs people to drive than go Metro. It’s an abhorrent shame that people think the subway is too expensive and then are all abuzz about a carpool lane on the 405 that will do absolutely nothing.

It’s like the problem with NIMBYism. The only way to fix our problems is with education. It seems like NIMBYism is a microcosm of our larger auto-dependence problem.

By: FredCamino

FredCamino — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 23:23:23 +0000

We love bicycles urbrayj02!!

MetroRiderLA, despite the name, is all about the transit oriented lifestyle. The transit oriented lifestyle is based off of transit oriented development, which generally sets the mobility hierarchy as follows:

1. Walking
2. Bicycling
3. Transit
4. Ridesharing
5. Personal Private Automobile

The pedestrian is always number one, the private automobile is always number last.

And that Bogota video is awesome, I watched it this morning.

By: ubrayj02

ubrayj02 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 23:17:00 +0000

First, someone did a very thorough cost anaylsis of automobile use in the New York metro area. It is worth a look - because deciding what public programs to externalize or internalize in your cost analysis can make a big difference (though cars, in every scenario I'm familiar with, never truly pay their way with taxes and users fees). Second, take a look at today's Streetsblog post on the lessons from Bogota, Columbia's "Ciclovia". This is a city in a developing nation that has found a way to markedly improve their quality of life and reduce traffic congestion. They are nowhere near as rich as we are. We could do amazing, traffic reducing, people moving things in L.A. - and end these idiotic subsidies of automobiles. Bicycle infrastructure is an overlooked people-mover. I know this is the MetroRider site - but mass transit is not the only game in town!