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ChineseA desire named streetcar in Long Beach
[tags]long beach, streetcar, public transit, long beach post[/tags]
Credit: Thomas Hawk via Flickr (Creative Commons license)
Long Beach ought to consider bringing back streetcars to complement its land use and transportation plans, suggests a commentary in the Long Beach Post.
Brian Ulaszewski writes in a September 4 article about streetcars, following up on a council member’s proposal earlier this year to study building a trolley line connecting downtown Long Beach — which has the Metro Blue Line — with the east side of the city.
Ulaszewski balances his streetcar advantages with counterpoints of comprable service provided by Long Beach Transit buses now. He says that streetcars offer a better perception of transit service because its fixed routes represent a continuity, and it would attract higher ridership and increased development.
“What streetcars offer that buses cannot is a sense of permanence,” he writes. “Laying tracks for a streetcar line signals significant community investment to residents, business-owners, and local stakeholders. This cannot be replicated by even the most elaborate buses and bus shelters. Such investment can spark significant economic development along the streetcar line (upwards of a 20-to-1 return on initial investment in some cases).”
Discussion
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Please keep discussions civil: exercise Troll Controll.
“What streetcars offer that buses cannot is a sense of permanence,”
Ask the MBTA Green Line “E” branch past Heath riders.
I think that Ulaszewski is right in that people have a greater inclination to ride rail than busses. But Rob doesn’t have to go all the way to the east coast to find proof that cities don’t necessarily view rail systems as permanent. We live in LA, after all!
The thing people forget is that rail transit stopped working and was abandoned by riders, by private industry, by municipalities. Nothing has changed that suddenly it will start working again.
Hey Rob,
I used to live on the E branch in Boston (thankfully not past Heath). Have you actually been there, or did you just google it? It’s a nightmare, and every Mayor and Governor who has tried to deal with it has probably suffered an MBTA-induced headache. South Huntington is a logistical nightmare, and I’ve discussed this with a lot of my friends - the only way to re-establish service safely would be to close South Huntington to vehicular traffic. A lot of us at Northeastern University advocated for that, but it’s a nightmare situation in a transit system that was built even more haphazardly than the New York subway. Not only that, but service is somewhat duplicated with the Orange Line. Your argument against permanence is poor because of this - they’re two very different situations. The E line problem permeates throughout Boston governance, it’s probably one of the T’s largest issues aside from the accessibility and the blue/red connector.
But until Menino and Patrick get the guts to limit traffic on South Huntington, nothing can be done, and that’s largely because the T loathes street running. And they’re right, street running is dangerous in Boston due to the unique road and weather conditions (icy tracks, snow, low visibility, sharply curving streets), my law school sat near a major intersection and we regularly heard crashes from the auditorium during the winter because of careless out-of-state drivers.
When people talk about rail permanence, they don’t mean “will it be here in five years?” but instead “Will this bus always run here, or will it get diverted 2 streets over and I’ll never know about it?” And rail tracks solve that problem, although to be honest I’m not sure that permanence is the biggest issue that any rail project faces here.
Have you actually been there, or did you just google it?
Cask’n'Flagon, Punters Pub, 3 Star Pizza? Uhhh, yeah, I have a passing aquaintance with the area.
Actually I was there in June for the MFA and Gardner and possibly to see where my tuition checks may be going )across the river).
Rail transit may have stopped in the past due to lack of interest, but the sheer increase in traffic has gotten people interested in it again. I had to go do a job in Echo Park today, and decided to take a visit to the Arclight and see a movie while I was in the area, which I did primarily by rail transit. I am someone who has a car, and can easily afford driving wherever I need to go, but I choose to use public transit when I can (and bicycle to work).
Many people I know would be very interested in using rail transit these days if it went on a reasonable path for them.
Notwithstanding the loss of half of the E line, the MBTA remains extremely popular in Boston, and the system is expanding to Medford and Somerville soon. There is no real debate there: people prefer rail to bus.
Ditto New York, which is planning to build a 2nd Avenue line to replace bus services there.
Ditto SF, which just finished the 3rd Street Light Rail.
I can keep going, but it seems clear that most transit riders prefer rail to bus. The only question is how much of a say they have in the matter.
True riders say they prefer rail to bus but when the steel hits the steel they are unwilling to pay the premium to earn the privledge.
True enough, Rob. Many of us don’t practice what we preach. But ask anyone if a bus is a better way than rail to get from Hollywood and Vine to Union Station, and you’re bound to get an earful.
*nods to Raphael* the real reason the E line is dying is because there’s more important projects. The density level hasn’t changed much in Jamaica Plain, but it’s skyrocketed in Somerville and Meffah ;).
Punters was around the corner from my apartment ;). Great place.
Hahvahd or MIT?
Rob: Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t that loss of the E-line supposed to be “temporary”? Notwithstanding how residents feel about it now, I thought it was removed with the intention of fixing it up eventually.
Raphael: It’s “temporary” but probably permanent. There are multiple lawsuits against the T as restoring that was contingent for the Big Dig project, but the T doesn’t want to touch it with a barge pole.
More information is available here among other sites.
I wish they’d restore it, the E line was so useful (I think it was the longest non-commuter streetcar line - the D line is practically a commuter trolley) and JP is an under-served neighborhood really. But even I sadly agree that the North extension and the red/blue connector, as well as blue line to Lynn, as well as red line to Arlington, as well as the silver line’s downtown connector (like the LB/Pasadena “blue lines,” Boston’s horrible BRT project is split in half downtown and you have to transfer to not one but 2 trains to connect), as well as all sorts of things, are probably more key than Arborway :(.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens with the lawsuits. Courts dislike specific performance (forcing someone to do or not do something i.e. an injunction). But this is the classic case of damages not being quantifiable.
It’s seriously back burner compared to all of the T’s other projects, though.
I think that the Commonwealth is probably going to find a way to worm out of Arborway, probably with Boston’s own “rapid” line from Heath Street to Arborway.
Punters was around the corner from my apartment ;). Great place.
Hahvahd or MIT?
Aaron, I was wished good luck in my future academic pursuits by far more institutions than that.
Heck, I was even on your varsity swim team in the land of the white bricks.
On topic. Yes, the suspension of service beyond Heath St. was supposed to be temporary. The railcars were not up to it. The rails were worn out, the congestion an increasing problem. The price/performance return relative to so many other projects keeps it from being addressed.
Streetcar and light rail aren’t the same thing. That being said, streetcar can indeed be just as lame, if not more so, than the bus. But if you need some redevelopment action, it can provide some of that, at least.
M1EK: It’s a location problem. In Boston, streetcar and LRT are used interchangeably. In LA or SF, not so much. Boston’s main line subway is actually an underground streetcar, so they’re going to own that, for good or ill, for the rest of their natural existence.