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ChineseLong Beach East-West Rail?
2nd District City Councilwoman Suja Lowenthal is flaunting her progressive creds by asking the City Council to fund a study to create an East-West rail line in Long Beach. The proposed line, whose route is not yet determined would connect downtown with points of interest on the east side, such as CSULB.
You can read about it in the Long Beach Press-Telegram:
http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_5890224
I am delighted to see this being discussed!
Now let me put on my Negative-Nancy face:
It’s really annoying that all this transit planning occurs on a local level. We have a REGIONAL transit problem. A short-distance rail will be of limited use to those of us who commute around LA and Orange Counties (as so many Long Beach-ies do).
But when you have an incompetent County Board of Supes in charge, it’s up to the few broad-minded municipalities to take on this burden….
Discussion
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Please keep discussions civil: exercise Troll Controll.
I don’t think there’s any conflict between regional and local goals here–an east-west streetcar system, for instance, could dovetail nicely with the existing Blue Line, similar to the way the Portland Streetcar in that city augments the usefulness of their larger MAX system…
There is no conflict at all, Rich! But I don’t know if we’ll be getting the best bang for the buck with a Long Beach-only rail.
My point is that the City of Long Beach can try as hard as it wants to make a transit-oriented city (assuming that the city council were all as forward-thinking as Suja Lowenthall), but it will fail because it’s surrounded by car-oriented LA County (Orange County too, if you want to be technical).
We in Southern California live, work, and play in a very large geographic area. We need transit to do more than just get us across town.
If we had strong leadership from our county supervisors (or higher–like SCAG, the governor, the legislature), we could have a transit system that takes us where we need to go.
That said, I hope this line gets built! (I’m not optimistic, though.)
I think Suja Lowenthal is out of her mind. She may have a doctorate, but book smarts doesn’t guarantee common sense.
Assuming the line runs down Broadway:
1) What happens to street parking on Broadway (which is already tight) when you run an east and west rail line down the middle of Broadway?
2) Will the residents (and there are a lot of them) whose apartments, condos and homes are on Broadway be thrilled with the idea of trains running outside their homes starting at 6:00 am and finishing at 11:00 at night? Doubtful. Of course you could always buy the property owners out and bulldoze their properties to widen the street to accomodate the trains. Yeah, right!
3) How many more new people will use this train than are currently riding Long Beach Transit buses? And if they aren’t riding the buses already because they drive their own cars, what will give them the incentive to ride the train?
4) The city is not flush with money. Where does Suja plan to come up with the money to build this boondoggle and how much of an annual subsidy will the city be required to pay out to keep it afloat?
Of course Suja doesn’t figure she’ll have to worry about any of that. The way she’s brazenly hopscotching up the political ladder she’ll be running for the White House by the time it gets built.
How many Lowenthals in politics is too many Lowenthals in politics? I think we’ve reached that point.
PDQ:
The route hasn’t been determined. You lay out some good reasons for NOT putting it on Broadway. I was assuming it would go down 7th or Anaheim, or something a bit further north. But nobody knows at this point.
1) I agree that wherever it’s placed will create problems. Parking is such a disaster in Alamitos Beach and nearby neighborhoods. Street parking is inadequate–that’s part of the reason we want more public transit. Believe me–Suja’s office is well aware of the problems. I have had many irate conversations with her staff as I circled blocks trying to find a space. The city will probably end up INCREASING street parking on Broadway, making it one-way with diagonal parking (also on 3rd street). I think that’s why they would avoid putting the rail here.
2) It ain’t exactly quiet right now. On Broadway, or any of the other major East-West streets. I really don’t think you can say that trains would contribute much to a very noisy traffic corridor. Plus, we are talking light rail, not a freight train.
I don’t want to sound dismissive of your concerns, but I personally think the noise concern is a typical NIMBY complaint and I dont really give it much weight.
3) Very good questions. In general, the bus system covers the territory pretty well already. I think the best incentive would be that you don’t have to park!
4) Funding is always a good question.
Frankly, although we have a lot of Lowenthals, I don’t hold a person’s family connections for or against them. And I’d rather look at Suja’s proposals than criticize her for being ambitious.
Putting it down Anaheim is a good idea. Then it could go down to San Pedro and connect with the Red Car line down there! Now then, we’re talking some bang for the buck. A heritage streetcar operation combined with an interurban function would bring two different functions for the price of one.
The waterfront Red Car line is very short right now, but the intent was always to expand it. Maybe bring the Port of Los Angeles/Port of Long Beach together to (help) fund this line? The Port of Los Angeles built the segment that’s already there by themselves, and the cost was very low. (I think 2.5 million dollars.)
Thanks Scott! I didn’t even know that San Pedro had a red car line!
Somehow, I envision a “heritage” (touristic?) line being more economical than a commuter line.
But if you’ve lived in SF, you know that Cable Cares and the historic F-line are well used by both populations!
Right now the San Pedro red car line is about 1.5 miles long, and goes along the waterfront where the cruise ships dock. It only runs when cruise ships are in port, Friday to Monday. The intent is to extend the line about two more miles south to end at Cabrillo Aquarium. This would mean about four more stations. Right now I think the line has four or five stations, and it costs $1 for an all-day ride pass.
Here’s a link to their web site, with lots of pictures:
http://www.railwaypreservation.com/page8.html
Okay, I made a mistake, the San Pedro red car line cost $10 million dollars, not $2.5 million dollars. Still pretty low as these things go.
Reminds me of the CRA’s proposal to “resurrect” Red Car trolley routes in downtown L.A. http://snipurl.com/1kw6a If only they had done their homework and realized they were actually talking about L.A. Railway’s Yellow Car streetcars. (SF Muni operates one in the correct Los Angeles Railway livery, nice to see that NoCal reads the history books - guess its easier to avoid urban myths when its not your own urban setting). Personally, low cost downtown DASH works well, as do the shuttle minibuses in Long Beach. Why spend the extra $$$ when Long Beach can barely afford to keep their libraries open more than a few hours a day? Priorities, priorities…
Definitely getting the impression that we are all concerned about the cost of this system.
Frankly, if the City of Long Beach were to give me $10 M to improve transit, I’d simply run a few more key busses, not build a rail line.
But if this is a touristy thing, they might be able to get “downtown interests” to foot the bill.
(Actually, as long as I’m the fantasy transit director, I’d just put a few more traffic cops on the streets, to ticket all those jerk drivers we have. Hopefully, we could get enough licenses revoked to lighten up congestion….)