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ChineseThe Downtown Transit Letdown
The skyscrapers of the Financial District as seen from the Civic Center Red Line Station.
Today blogdowntown and the LA Downtown News revealed that the DCBID released the results of their 2006 Demographic Survey of New Downtown Residents(PDF). This survey, which was conducted in the last part of 2006, gives insight into the demographic information of the new downtown residential population including their age, income, education, work, and recreational activities. It is meant to offer a glimpse into the overall community of Downtown Los Angeles.
As a Downtown resident (who particapted in this survey) and a public transit advocate, I have to admit that some of the information revealed in this survey leaves me disappointed in my community and a bit cynical about the future of this whole “Los Angeles Public Transit Lifestyle” thing I’ve been pushing. Call me jaded, but these numbers make it all seem a bit futile.
So here’s the most depressing result from the survey:
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You read that right. In Downtown Los Angeles, the transportation hub of the city, 61.4% of its residents very rarely or never use public transportation. In addition, a paltry 11.5% use public transit almost daily. To the approximately 17,731 Downtown residents who never use public transit, I ask: WTF???
According to the survey, the majority of you are young (median age 31), most of you are single (more than 60%), most of you don’t have kids (72.7%), most of you are facking rich (average household income is $99,600), and most of you are educated (I’m not going to say smart, but 76.5% of you have college degrees). Oh yeah, and most of you (54.5%) love Downtown because you like being in an “urban setting”. So what gives Downtowners? Young rich single urbanites with college educations don’t have many legitimate excuses for not using public transportation - especially living in Downtown Los Angeles.
The survey actually has a section describing Downtown’s abudant public transit options and the current expansion of the system. According to the survey Downtown is serviced by 53 regular local bus routes, 17 limited stop routes, 3 Rapid routes, 50 express routes, and 6 DASH routes. This makes for a whopping 129 bus routes overall in Downtown. In addition Downtown is L.A.’s rail transit center, with 3 of the 4 Metro Rail lines serving and terminating in Downtown as well as Metrolink commuter rail and Amtrak trains running in and out of Downtown’s own Union Station. And by 2009 Downtown will also have the Expo Line and the Gold Line Extension to East L.A. Oh and let’s not forget the FlyAway, the best way to get to LAX, period. If there was ever a place in L.A. to use public transit, Downtown would be it (in fact, check out the comments on this story on CurbedLA, I was doing my best to defend Downtown as a transit hub). So what’s the deal Downtowners???
Well maybe since Downtown is so dense and walkable compared to other parts of Los Angeles, and you all so desire the “urban setting”, maybe you walk or ride your bikes to get to work? That’s got to be it.
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I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. 61.4% of you never ride public transit and 63.6% of you drive solo to work. Inverse relationship. Lovely. Once again a pathetic 11.3% of Downtowners get to work via public transit, and an equally pathetic 17.2% walk or ride their bikes to work. What exactly about the “urban setting” of Downtown is important to you Downtown dwellers? What’s especially great about this statistic is that 55.1% of these people WORK IN DOWNTOWN. In fact, Downtowners considered “proximity to workplace” the second greatest benefit of living in Downtown after “being in an urban setting”. To me that should mean that 55.1% of you walk, ride, or take public transit to work… not 28.5%. Are you really driving 4-blocks from your loft in the Historic Core to your high-rise office in the Financial Distrtict?? The majority (22.4%) of the rest of you work in the Westside (which in this survey includes Hollywood, Wilshire, and Santa Monica). There’s a subway that goes directly to Hollywood, ample rapid bus service down Wilshire, and great bus service to Santa Monica. Are you kidding me Downtown L.A.???
No surprise here. Only 3.3% of Downtown households are car-free. It’s been said time and time again, “you can’t live in L.A. without a car”. Not even in Downtown L.A. it seems. I mean, how are you supposed to get groceries?
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It’s well known that there’s no full service supermarket in Downtown (until Ralphs opens later this year or unless you count Maruki Market in Little Tokyo, but why do that?), but that sure doesn’t mean that there aren’t transit accessible supermarkets less that 5 miles away. In fact, take a 10-minute ride on the Red Line from 7th Metro Center to Wilshire/Western and what will you find? A Ralphs! But wait, Downtowners like their specialty grocers like Trader Joes (a whopping 84.8% of residents surveyed want a Trader Joes in Downtown pronto). I wonder if these Trader Joes fans realize that they can hop on the Gold Line at Union Station and ride to the Mission Station in South Pasadena and shop at the original Trader Joes, as I’ve done many times before. Why bother when you can drive there. I wouldn’t be surprised if Downtown residents drive to the new Ralphs once it opens.
Downtown has a burgeoning restaurant scene, but Downtowners have some issues:
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I agree about the hours, most Downtown restaurants cater only to the business crowds and shut down at night, but what shocked me was the 42.6% who felt that “Downtown parking not as available” and the 38.6% who think “Downtown parking costs too much”. Why, fellow Downtowners, are you driving to Downtown restaurants??? The entire Downtown area as defined by the DCBID is 65-blocks and most developments in Downtown are mixed use, there is no viable reason whatsoever to drive to a Downtown restaurant when you live downtown. None. I don’t care if it’s raining. Take an umbrella. New Yorkers do it. Worried about friends? Point them to the Metro Trip Planner. 129 bus routes and multiple rail lines, remember?
Although they don’t really use the public transit Downtown, Downtowners have some desires on how it can be improved. Maybe there are some fundamental flaws to the system that is keeping them from riding?
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So it seems that the number one thing keeping 61.4% of Downtowners from riding public transit is that THERE’S NO TROLLEY SYSTEM. Egads, let’s get to building one right quick then, because it definately guarantees that Downtown residents will finally get out of their cars. I mean the DASH system is fine but trolleys are just so much more urban. If my sarcasm isn’t evident, let me really lay it on: IF THE TROLLEY SYSTEM IS REINTRODUCED IN DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES, DOWNTOWNERS WILL 100% MOST DEFINATELY RIDE IT ALL THE TIME ACTUALLY FOR REAL. Oh and right up there with the lack of a trolley system is “better safety”. Apparently the current public transit system in Downtown Los Angeles is really unsafe. Or maybe these predominenty male young rich urban pioneers are really a bunch of PUSSIES. Maybe if there were more 24-hour luxury gyms in Downtown they could get buff enough to fight off the daily violence that occurs on the buses and trains in Downtown L.A. I ask the Downtowners: what exactly do you want done to make the public transit system “safer”? Armed guards? Bouncers? Credit-checks?
Okay. That’s it. Sorry for the rant. I’m just really let down by the results of this survey. In my mind Downtown really was a bit more progressive. I really believed it was more than just a trustafarian destination, that it would be a place that people would move to because they loved the “urban setting” for more than just the tall buildings. I hoped it would be ground zero for the “Los Angeles Public Transit Lifestyle”. But perhaps Hollywood is right, maybe Downtown is nothing more than a movie set that’s meant to look like a “real city”. The buildings are real, but maybe it’s the people who are nothing more than flimsy set pieces, pretending to live the “urban” life but living no differently from a wealthy Westsider (who the typical Downtowner would pompously malign). Maybe I’m being too negative, but with all the money being put into “transit oriented” developmenet around here (and elsewhere in the city) I’m beginning to wonder if it’s all for naught. Most of these transit oriented developments are “luxury” developments, and if the results so far Downtown tell us anything, yuppies and public transit don’t mix. Let’s hope next years results look a lot different.
Discussion
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Please keep discussions civil: exercise Troll Controll.
i agree, dtla is nothing if not a let down for sure. complete and utter let down.
i think the most entertaining (absurd) part is the… well damn, its so hard to pick. its all so effing absurd. and equally frustrating/aggravating/infuriating/vexing/annoying (wondering yet what word i typed into thesaurus.com?)
and it’s so absolutely true. this lie of a life that these residents claim to be of urban fabric, these pioneers of LA, doing nothing to justify their title they wear so proudly every time they drive to work and bars on the westside to tell their friends. “you should too, its great down there.” then drive back to their covered parking that’s “too expensive” or not abundant enough.
and of course all these genius’ that won’t get on a bus cuz of the MOST DEFINATE chance of getting murdilated! are you kidding me?! get the eff over yourselves you morons. unsafe? i’ve not once, not ONCE, felt unsafe or threatened on a train or bus in LA, DT or otherwise and i’m definitely no huge intimidating boi either.
hahaha, sums it up perfectly really.
and to the rest of the morons that feel that a trolley system is the all defining answer to their anti public transit stance… are you out of your effing minds?! i’m all for the trolley, sure, great, but just like you said fred, its just so they can take pictures of it to send to their friends in santa monica and seattle. has nothing to do with actual feasibility and functionality of it.
these people all want their lives to be “more urban” yet they can’t even take the step that is most urban of all, public transit. what a joke.
(and the word I thesaurus’d was irritating. though perhaps mind- exploding-perversely-obscene would have worked best)
I feel a lot of the car riding percentage would reduce from residents with things such as supermarkets close by so that they can (gasps) WALK to the market.
We’ll see Jerard. I’m a bit skeptical, it seems from the results that although most people can walk to work or to nearby restaurants, they’d rather drive. And as I mentioned, although there are few walkable groceries, there are transit accessible groceries… but most people are driving 5 or more miles to get their groceries.
I live in Downtown, technically Central City West. Here’s a good point. There is a Food4Less at 6th/Union. Opens from 6am-12am a plethora of items to purchase.
Here’s the problem, the service SUCKS!. You’re waiting in a checkout line for close to 45 minutes just to get through. That’s why I avoid that clusterf— like the Plague and hop on the subway or 720 bus to Wilshire/Western.
Part of my reasoning for doing this is that I have no car. If I had one, Honestly I would be one of those statistics. If the subway ran more frequently (once the line is extended) or if there was more room for me and others to enter my cart or stroller on the crowded 60′ buses then folks will use transit to get there. Or if the buses like DASH or some of the MTA routes ran more frequently then a quick trip to the grocery story doesn’t seem like an all day or all night event.
Now a closer supermarket will help reduce that trip from a car to simply a cart and one’s feet.
Oh I agree about Food4Less, I tried that and had the same experience. Obviously a walkable grocery store is needed Downtown, and we’ll be getting that Ralphs this summer hopefully. However, my worry is that even with a local walkable Ralphs, Downtowners will still drive to it because the “cart and foot” method you mentioned is just a little bit too difficult. I mean, really, if a bunch of young rich guys can’t handle the immense stress of carrying a few bags of groceries on a train or bus, whose to say they’ll be able to push a cart.
Obviously none of this is directed at you Jerard, since you do in fact use the Metro to get your groceries!
I understand, but they would still need some form of cart to transport their groceries from their parking space to their units, Now wouldn’t they?
I’ve learned the key to understanding and out-smarting a yuppie is think suburban (Where they’re mindsets are from) but sound urban (MARKETing), you know kinda like that MTV show the “Real World”
[...] Commentary | MetroRiderLA [...]
I certainly don’t like the numbers, but to take a step back, there is a serious chicken/egg problem. Parking isn’t yet painful enough that there’s a need for people to avoid using cars downtown, and the grocery thing is a serious issue. This isn’t New York, where we have Gristedes every 6 block (oh, how I miss Gristedes…). This develops with time, and the massive boom in construction will lead to more people living downtown, will lead to more retailers coming in, will lead to the downtown stations feeling safer (I don’t mind the stations at night, but there are iffy areas after the workday ends).
This would be a good opportunity for the City and redevelopment agencies (or whatever LA calls them) to try and take a step back and identify what’s “missing” about downtown. Sure, a trolley right now is a dumb idea, but the fact that it’s being articulated says to me that people want a fixed-route system downtown that they can rely on and understand. Why isn’t DASH providing that? Why isn’t Metro? Is it because they’re inadequate, or because people believe they’re inadequate? Instead of insulting people, let’s try and figure that out. If people who live downtown trend towards workaholics, then DASH *is* unreliable; it shuts down too early.
One huge issue that I see, coming from the Northeast; I am VERY hesitant to rely on things that run only “part” of the time, like the weekday bus routes and DASH. I’m too used to NYC transit, where most routes run at most reasonable hours; I’m much more comfortable with the subways/LRT and frequent-service lines like the 720. I hope with time I’ll become more comfortable with the situation, but it’s not just a matter of these new Downtown residents being wimps - everyone has to use some basic psych & sociology to try and figure out not only what services are useful, but what services aren’t able to communicate their usefulness.
After seeing what I’ve seen, compared to the way it used to be, I’m firmly convinced that LA’s got unstoppable momentum in its accidental quest to be more urban. It’s going to happen. But it’s not going to happen overnight, and it’s going to happen in a uniquely LA way. If giving people something that they feel confident using means painting a few busses red, then that’s what we need to figure out. Gimmicks work, not because people are stupid, but because people like things that don’t require a degree in urban planning to figure out.
Sadly, municipal and county employers need to really pick up the ball and run with it. Even those I’ve interacted with, when I insist that I don’t need parking privileges because I live in Koreatown, act like I just sprouted three heads. The city can’t have it both ways; we can’t have a subway mayor whose bureaucracy still acts like employees who ride the subway are fresh from a mis-directed Staten Island Ferry who will find their car-filled way in time.
By the way, the grocery thing really is a more serious problem than it seems. Spend some time in Boston or New York, you’ll see mom-and-pop grocers ever 2-3 blocks, and as I said, New York has Gristedes, who I absolutely love, and who are all over the place (so maybe I’m one of those wide-eyed people who just got off the staten island ferry, so sue me;p). Me personally? I’m setting aside extra money to get groceries delivered rather than schlepping a pile of stuff on transit. If I had a car, yeah, I’d drive for groceries, as compared to praying that the metro purple line came before the milk went bad.
Sad … but not unexpected. You’ll just have to work even harder now, Fred! Just think: Maybe all these new residents just don’t know about the glories of transit and you have to teach them!
Aaron, there’s no doubt the grocery store thing is a big issue, but anyone who moved to Downtown, unless they bought blind was well aware there was no grocery store, and especially no Trader Joes. When I shop for groceries, I only ever buy as much as I can comfortably carry. I think if people want to live Downtown they are going to have to get rid of their suburban fill up the shopping cart and pack the trunk full mentality. But then again, why would they? Ralphs will have underground parking. I suppose there’s no really compelling reason (except our cases, where we are without cars) to walk and carry a few groceries when you can drive and carry a bunch.
And like I said, call me jaded if you will, but it seems to me the desire for a trolley is less about having a fixed route system Downtown, and more about having another cute “Downtowny” thing downtown. What would go better with a cute loft than a cute trolley! Ding Ding! But I’m honestly not interested in living in a simulacrum of a real city, I can go to The Grove for that.
I guess my main problem is that this site is all about perception. I know I can do very little to get trolleys built, subways dug, service added, etc. etc. I just have this belief that if more people ride, those changes will come, and they will come fast. And it requires such a minor sacrifice, especially in Downtown, to ride. I don’t feel that my physical make-up makes it any easier for me to ride public transit than some of my Downtown neighbors. In fact, apparently aside from my public transit use, I fit the mold of a typical Downtown resident. So why is it so easy for me and some of my peers (other MetroRiders) to live down here car-free and successfully? My fridge is always stocked, my errands are always completed in a timely manner, I dine out, I watch movies in the theater, I work, I see friends and co-workers… all without owning a car and relying on my own two feet and the transportation system that already exists. It’s. Not. Even. Any. Percent. Difficult.
[...] FredCamino’s malaise notwithstanding, the central city collection of housing goes on display at the Downtown Living 2007 Weekend, 10 a.m.-5 p.m. Saturday and Sunday, March 10 and 11. [...]
I totally get what you’re saying, but that’s probably the wrong question. The question we’re really trying to ask is “why is it so easy for people to live downtown with cars successfully?” What are we (”we” on a highly macro level) doing wrong that encourages owning a car downtown?
My father (ironically) is a highway engineer, and he always makes the very true point that for the majority of people (ie people who aren’t rail nuts like me, though I probably couldn’t drive if I wanted to anyhow), you need to have a certain minimal level of pain before people give up their cars. Be it gas prices, insurance costs, commuting times, dangerous road conditions (in icy cities), there needs to be a minimal deterrent.
As long as the city continues to require minimum levels of parking (look at the Ralph’s…) people who live downtown won’t be fighting traffic on the 10 and the 101, they won’t be at that requisite level of mobility pain. LA as it is continues to advocate the car culture, many times unintentionally; until we make an active choice to either make car usage too painful to justify, or make public transit too good to pass up, we’re going to continue where we are.
There’s no reason we’re limited to only one of those things; we could commit ourselves to, and to a small extent already have committed ourselves to a veritable pincer maneouvre; make transit more attractive (nicer stations etc) while making driving more painful. But as it stands, car ownership isn’t painful enough, and transit isn’t amazing enough, to get the large movement out of cars that you see in New York and London. Sure, the transit lifestyle is livable in LA, but quite frankly it’s a bit like being a vegetarian; it’s a healthy choice that we make, but that not everyone will make, not ever.
A more urbanized LA will surely come in our lifetime, but we could speed it up substantially through legislative means; a good start would be capping the number of parking spaces that comes with construction in the more urban areas of LA, rather than setting a floor. Quit permitting as many parking garages, start charging an exorbitant parking space tax to discourage investment in current garages (and thus driving up the price of parking), you see where this goes.
Sorry, I tend to write long comments, so I’ve been told ;p.
Did we get any comparison of DT residents and other neighborhoods, or of LA as a whole?
I’ll bet downtown residents, sadly enough, ARE actually using public transit more than those who live in, say, Hollywood, Santa Monica or Sherman Oaks.
I’ll bet 3.3% of households with no car at all is much higher than other areas of L.A., which probably have well under 1% of households with no car. Hell, that’s L.A.: even the working poor have cars, even if they are 20 year old beaters.
So, yes, good points, kind of sad, this could be MUCH IMPROVED, but I’m thinking that I’m a glass-half-full kind of guy today and Maybe downtown residents are on the right track, says the man who owns one car and uses it only once a week, public transit or walking the rest of the time.
Scott,
Whitman Lam posted a stat over at blogdowntown that said that public transit use (daily) in the greater LA area is 5.6% whereas per the survey it’s 11.3% in Downtown. I don’t know where he got the info from, but it sounds about right.
Downtown’s transit use should be higher by default I would hope just because the sheer amount of transit available versus, well, just about anywhere else in LA.
MetroRiderLA’s next mission is to make a mega dent in those stats for next year. Wish me luck.
This is not surprising at all. One of the eternally busy streets in L.A. (Broadway), has been hollowed out for automobile traffic. Every street is masturbated over by DOT car-traffic engineers - to kill pedestrian safety, hurt our air quality, and remove convenience from everything except private automobile travel.
Do you want to increase transit ridership and reduce car trips? One simple thing is all that is required: ban cars from roads.
I suggest Broadway as a start, from 3rd to 11th Street.
i agree with this aaron, but what will it take, 3 hours to travel 10 miles and 7 dollar gallons of gas?! the above is already at a terrible “suicide inducing” level, but perhaps thats just me.
ehhh, not sure about that just yet, but if the trolley idea ever happens, i’m in complete agreement.
[...] weeks ago I told you all about my disappointment in Downtown LA’s transit usage. I wrote a long angry rant directed at Downtown’s new residents and encouraged them to look at the transit options that [...]
Well, if you want to get these new residents out of cars and onto the buses, these are some things to think about.
* Do the buses go where Downtown-dwellers want to go? Sure there are lots of MTA (and other) bus routes converging on Downtown, but most of these seem to be designed to bring riders from other parts of the city into Downtown, then back out again; suitability of these routes for downtown residents is kind of hit-or-miss. Bus service to residential areas that were formerly industrial is especially weak.
These buses are often full as well. On the occasions that I have used the MTA buses to make a trip entirely within downtown, they have been standing-room only.
DASH is more oriented to trips within downtown, but until lately, it was mostly used by office workers and tourists, not residents.
* How is marketing like? These new residents are mostly unfamiliar with any public transit beyond the rail lines and maybe DASH. Just pointing them to a schedule rack or MTA’s website isn’t enough.
Someone ought to make a list of all the residential buildings in Downtown LA. For each building, a list of destinations (office towers, restaurants, museums, etc.) and the bus route(s) one would take to get to those places should be provided, including any transfers.
* How are conditions at stops? Is it a long walk from the building to get to a bus stop? Does one feel safe waiting for a bus? What about after dark?
[...] Solution-With the recent survey indicating over 60 percent of new downtown residents do not use transit, McFerrin says it may be due to walking being a far more viable option for [...]
ultram…
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We gotta stop these spammers…..